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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 14:24:53 GMT -5
As I have said a few times, I am doing my best to stay positive....but even the sneak peak raises a few issues for me. Vincent is already aware of the fact that Catherine still has feelings for him, so he won't have to work very hard to win her over. I thought he would come to realize that he is as deserving of her as Gabe and that he would challenge that relationship and let Catherine know that he was not going to give her up without a fight. I wanted him to really woo her....instead, he gets to wear his little smug smile (which I love, by the way) and tell himself, "wait a moment, she's not quite over me; my window of opportunity has opened again." He needed to open the window himself and squeeze his tight body through the smallest of openings and then work like a dog to make her notice his worth once again.
It is all very confusing!
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Feb 16, 2014 14:42:25 GMT -5
Sorry to burst your bubble, but what part of Vincent getting out of the bed Tori was in, both of them naked (because they were, the bathrobes existed because they can't put it on screen because it's not a rated show) in the same ambiance and Tori saying to his face that they were in a sort of relationship and that she wanted him to give on Cat to be with her is not clear? Yes, Vincent & Tori were in "some sort of relationship" but it was a very complex one, not based on Vincent's love & emotional attachment! Tori is now gone! Whatever relationship they had is dead & buried! It is time to move on. She served her purpose in the introduction of the Mythology & showed Vincent what his life is like without Catherine. He is now on the road to recovery. He has loved Catherine for a very long time & that hasn't changed.
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Post by crazyforbatb_has season 3 on Feb 16, 2014 14:43:56 GMT -5
As I have said a few times, I am doing my best to stay positive....but even the sneak peak raises a few issues for me. Vincent is already aware of the fact that Catherine still has feelings for him, so he won't have to work very hard to win her over. I thought he would come to realize that he is as deserving of her as Gabe and that he would challenge that relationship and let Catherine know that he was not going to give her up without a fight. I wanted him to really woo her....instead, he gets to wear his little smug smile (which I love, by the way) and tell himself, "wait a moment, she's not quite over me; my window of opportunity has opened again." He needed to open the window himself and squeeze his tight body through the smallest of openings and then work like a dog to make her notice his worth once again. It is all very confusing! I am as confused as you are Loca but the more I think about this (and it has been mentioned by other beasties too) it seems pretty obvious that TPTB intended more than a two season arc. We were promised, like you said, that V would have to work hard to earn back C love and what he did to her would not be easily forgotten or swept under the rug. Now, however, the prospect (insert huge sob of anguish here noooo please we need more) of another season seems to be getting bleaker by the day and so I think storylines have to be compressed but no-one seems to know how to do this intelligently and with cohesion to the story thread as a whole. TPTB have to retract on their promises and are doing so clumsily and leaving themselves with egg on their faces
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 14:50:59 GMT -5
As much I would prefer this scenario, the writers never saw it that way. They told us that it would be absolutely natural and logical for Cat to go there, because Gabe is the perfect match every woman can only dream of. I’m sure Cat will sleep with Gabe, but it will only be implied, similar to V/Tori, and believe me, they will never tell us if the sex was satisfying or not, lol I know, one shouldn’t read too much into Catherine Ashton’s tweets, but I always have her ep description (“sometimes dreams come true”) in the back of my mind. Someone will dream about something and it will come true in the end, and it will either refer to V or Cat or both. That’s how I imagine it could go down(but I’m not very good at predictions ): If it’s V, he is remembering his old life as a doctor, so maybe at the end he could be offered a job at the hospital by his old mentor and accept it. If it’s Cat, I think we could be shown an actual dream sequence and the first scene of the ep with V half naked in his houseboat and C "dropping by for a chat” could be Cat’s dream. Then she awakes lying next to Gabe in his apartment and is shocked, because she realizes no matter how much she tries to deny it, she is subconsciously still very much attracted to Vincent. This will lead to awkward situations throughout the episodes with Vincent, like the one in the sneek peak, where she gets so angry at V(because he seemingly is completely over her, but still evokes the kind of feelings she is desperately in denial about) At some point at the end JT will tell Cat (maybe let it slip accidently) that V still loves her, which will confuse her even more. This is where I hope Cat finally decides that going into a relationship with Gabe was a mistake and she breaks up with him. It has to happen in ep 14, if V and C are supposed to get closer again in ep 15(I’m not quite sure yet if they will end up in bed already in ep 15, maybe it’s just a kiss. I know the term "about last night” does imply having sex, but it could be deceiving). Anyhow, no way I can image the writers would want to leave the impression that Cat is cheating on Gabe with Vincent… The story still would be very rushed though, I wished they would re-build the VinCat relationship more slowly and convincingly(it has been discussed here a lot already), but at this point I am willing to give them a pass because we all know we are running out of time and so they will have to take the "sexual attraction” shortcut.
And that only is happening because they wasted 7 episodes trying to shove Tori down our throats and prove how important she was to the show. Now, we're out of time to have a full recover for VinCat. The really sad thing to me is that the show runners made a huge mistake, a mistake they were very aware that could go horribly wrong, and now the show and its loyal fans are paying the price for it.
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Feb 16, 2014 14:56:56 GMT -5
So Vincent and Tori weren't having sex. Is that what you're saying? Because I'm pretty sure a person doesn't break up with another person if there's absolutely no relationship going on. And I'm pretty sure Vincent broke up with Tori. And I'm pretty sure the writers made very clear that Vincent and Tori were having sex. Tori said it to Cat's face on the precinct. It was only edited out because the show runners didn't want to screw up their ratings even more. We all interpret things in different ways & see things differently. It wasn't shown, so we will never know for sure. IMO,if they were or weren't having sex is totally irrelevant. By Tori's & Vincent's comments & his actions, he did not love her or pretend to love her. Whatever relationship they had is now over. We can keep speculating & going around in circles but it will not make any difference one way or another. I for one, have closed that chapter & am moving on.
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Post by Jubilant Judi on Feb 16, 2014 15:08:27 GMT -5
So Vincent and Tori weren't having sex. Is that what you're saying? Because I'm pretty sure a person doesn't break up with another person if there's absolutely no relationship going on. And I'm pretty sure Vincent broke up with Tori. And I'm pretty sure the writers made very clear that Vincent and Tori were having sex. Tori said it to Cat's face on the precinct. It was only edited out because the show runners didn't want to screw up their ratings even more. We all interpret things in different ways & see things differently. It wasn't shown, so we will never know for sure. IMO,if they were or weren't having sex is totally irrelevant. By Tori's & Vincent's comments & his actions, he did not love her or pretend to love her. Whatever relationship they had is now over. We can keep speculating & going around in circles but it will not make any difference one way or another. I for one, have closed that chapter & am moving on.
The whole Tori thing is in the past - Gabe and Catherine are a sinking ship - at this point I will take ANY reason for Vincent and Catherine getting back together - looking forward to changing my name to Jubilant Judi PLEASE somebody post a summation or play by play of this episode tonight - I won't be able to watch Monday night on cw - I have plans
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Feb 16, 2014 15:37:14 GMT -5
I am as confused as you are Loca but the more I think about this (and it has been mentioned by other beasties too) it seems pretty obvious that TPTB intended more than a two season arc. We were promised, like you said, that V would have to work hard to earn back C love and what he did to her would not be easily forgotten or swept under the rug. Now, however, the prospect (insert huge sob of anguish here noooo please we need more) of another season seems to be getting bleaker by the day and so I think storylines have to be compressed but no-one seems to know how to do this intelligently and with cohesion to the story thread as a whole. TPTB have to retract on their promises and are doing so clumsily and leaving themselves with egg on their faces We won't know what will actually happen until we reach the end of S02. Some believe the plug will be pulled then. I don't. When Kern came on board, he mentioned planning for 5 years, but with changes. The changes have been made, the storylines introduced could be developed over several seasons. The ratings in the US aren't great, but that is a very tough market! But BatB seems to be gaining strength in the International markets! Maybe our members here can confirm that or shatter my dreams forever! As long as CW can make $$ anywhere, we will have BatB. There is big $$ made in syndication & DVDs. So, until I officially hear otherwise, I am not getting on the "Doom & Gloom Train". You can find me in my Happy Beastieland, enjoying the Sunshine & Rainbows. Feeding the unicorns!
Now, I'm going back to Sochi.
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Post by Jubilant Judi on Feb 16, 2014 15:49:53 GMT -5
I am as confused as you are Loca but the more I think about this (and it has been mentioned by other beasties too) it seems pretty obvious that TPTB intended more than a two season arc. We were promised, like you said, that V would have to work hard to earn back C love and what he did to her would not be easily forgotten or swept under the rug. Now, however, the prospect (insert huge sob of anguish here noooo please we need more) of another season seems to be getting bleaker by the day and so I think storylines have to be compressed but no-one seems to know how to do this intelligently and with cohesion to the story thread as a whole. TPTB have to retract on their promises and are doing so clumsily and leaving themselves with egg on their faces We won't know what will actually happen until we reach the end of S02. Some believe the plug will be pulled then. I don't. When Kern came on board, he mentioned planning for 5 years, but with changes. The changes have been made, the storylines introduced could be developed over several seasons. The ratings in the US aren't great, but that is a very tough market! But BatB seems to be gaining strength in the International markets! Maybe our members here can confirm that or shatter my dreams forever! As long as CW can make $$ anywhere, we will have BatB. There is big $$ made in syndication & DVDs. So, until I officially hear otherwise, I am not getting on the "Doom & Gloom Train". You can find me in my Happy Beastieland, enjoying the Sunshine & Rainbows. Feeding the unicorns!
Now, I'm going back to Sochi.
I like unicorns
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 16, 2014 16:05:43 GMT -5
If the importance of the two pairings is ZERO (which it is) why have the pairings? When I think about it all I can say is : Je suis malade! So.....I am choosing to put that out of my mind and focus on the good stuff; yet, I am not convinced I will feel the magic, I am doing all I can to remain open minded. Let's see what happens! Exactly! In the end, all I can think of is what was the point of all this? It is because the creative team couldn't think of anything better than a bunch of meaningless love triangles. Because IMO they didn't deliver on any of the other promises they made about character development and people exploring "who they are" so that VinCat can come together stronger than they were before… Sorry but a bunch of baggage is just more weight to carry around that weighs your relationship down. It doesn't, um, necessarily make you stronger just because you have been through all that…
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 17:10:41 GMT -5
If the importance of the two pairings is ZERO (which it is) why have the pairings? When I think about it all I can say is : Je suis malade! So.....I am choosing to put that out of my mind and focus on the good stuff; yet, I am not convinced I will feel the magic, I am doing all I can to remain open minded. Let's see what happens! Exactly! In the end, all I can think of is what was the point of all this? It is because the creative team couldn't think of anything better than a bunch of meaningless love triangles. Because IMO they didn't deliver on any of the other promises they made about character development and people exploring "who they are" so that VinCat can come together stronger than they were before… Sorry but a bunch of baggage is just more weight to carry around that weighs your relationship down. It doesn't, um, necessarily make you stronger just because you have been through all that… I think they got lost in their own greed. The way I see it, their only gold was to bring to the show the audience the network is used to. All the other things were irrelevant and only excuses to break the premise of S1 which was of true love overcoming every barrier. They failed to see that the audience really interested in the show is a lot smarter than what they gave it credit for. If you think about it, there was no character development or exploitation. The main focus was Vincent's character (to the expense of all the others, I might add), but the route they claimed wanting to go never made to the screen. There wasn't really a road down to the dark side. There wasn't a descendence to his bestial side. In the beginning of the season, he was trying to decipher who he was in the scenario of what he knew, that was only what he was told by whoever brainwashed him, and what all those strangers told him, that he was a different man and had a life full of love. He was in conflict with what he should do with all those disconnected information. There wasn't any Jekyl and Hyde moment. Vincent was on his way out of his confusion and then, bam, this female appeared in front of him and everything became secondary, including Catherine. No conflict. He simply gave himself to his beast the minute he got in contact with Tori. And only started to question if that was a good thing or not months after embracing his dark side. And Tori by default. There was also no transitioning from the dark for the bright side again. One minute, he was totally feral and accusing Catherine of the most horrible things. One minute later, he was with the gem in his pocket and free of Tori's bad influence. One minute later, he was breaking up for good with Tori and ridding himself of her power. No conflict, no regret, not one single real emotion was shown to make the audience understand when this transition happened. Now, he simply went back to be the man he was before he got trapped in Reynolds' net. I call that character's regression, not development. Catherine's character became non existent. She's just the receptacle of all Vincent's wrong doings. All her bad decisions were only a reaction to his bad ones. Not one single time she thought for her own. It was only her reacting to what Tess told her, Vincent did, Reynolds wanted or Gabe pressured. Even JT tried to command her in the beginning of the season. Suddenly, she reached the pinacle of her emotional break down when Vincent saved Tori and decided that that would be the moment she wouldn't have anything to do with him anymore. But, instead of better herself and try to become whole again, she decided to break herself in two once more by basing her recover in entering a doomed relationship that won't add anything on her life, but codependence and mistrust. I have yet to see any personal growth in what the writers are putting on my screen every week.
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MyBatB
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Post by MyBatB on Feb 16, 2014 17:19:01 GMT -5
I don't mind speculations about books, movies or tv shows, because they're great and explain us to understand human behaviours, past the obvious. They teach us how the different interpretations of events or actions are the reflection of our own life, our own experiences, our breeding and our education. That's awesome ! Let's not forget that in the fairytale, original story, there are two main themes : LOVE and REDEMPTION. And it's what all is about. We actually see that in the tv show in spite of the fact the story takes place nowadays in NYC and I think this was done very well. But how is the road during the journey ? Everyone sees it from its own point of view: some like what others dislike, and in all this sharing we learn A LOT ! About the characters, about the writing, the events, etc...The points of view can be far apart, even contradictory, we all stick to the main story ! And that's very comforting. Remember : love and redemption, and redemption.... is coming in a few hours ! Lol !
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Post by oriana happy 4 s3 on Feb 16, 2014 17:32:11 GMT -5
I feel like BK is devilishly snickering behind our backs pleased to create many doubts and especially a lot of web traffic! I have some thoughts about JT breaking the bro-code with Cat: - Vincent still loves Catherine (we all know this but it's too obvious to BATB writers) - JT reveals something about V/T "some sort of relationship" (primal sex or bro/sis with/without benefits or emotional dependency or Stocholm syndrome... all wrong, sure it's NOT love) - JT reveals that Vincent was blackmailed by Reynolds and why he broke up with Catherine (too save her) - Some mythology news (I'm curious about Rebecca bond with the beast) Still hoping to watch episodes improve; in S2 so far I've only really loved EP04 HOTHEAD!
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Post by Jubilant Judi on Feb 16, 2014 17:34:08 GMT -5
It might be the FEET of snow and the cabin fever from being stuck indoors - I live on the east coast of US - I want happiness between Vincent and Catherine - I want sunshine and flowers - I'm okay that they are for Gabe's funeral - I'm done with the appetizers - time for the main course Vincent and Catherine - love scene for desert is fine with me
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MyBatB
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Post by MyBatB on Feb 16, 2014 17:37:06 GMT -5
Sorry I had a problem while posting, so I deleted this one which was the same post !
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 18:00:51 GMT -5
I feel like BK is devilishly snickering behind our backs pleased to create many doubts and especially a lot of web traffic! I have some thoughts about JT breaking the bro-code with Cat: - Vincent still loves Catherine (we all know this but it's too obvious to BATB writers) - JT reveals something about V/T "some sort of relationship" (primal sex or bro/sis with/without benefits or emotional dependency or Stocholm syndrome... all wrong, sure it's NOT love) - JT reveals that Vincent was blackmailed by Reynolds and why he broke up with Catherine (too save her) - Some mythology news (I'm curious about Rebecca bond with the beast) Still hoping to watch episodes improve; in S2 so far I've only really loved EP04 HOTHEAD! I don't want JT revealing anything about Vincent's relationship with Tori. That's a conversation that Vincent and Catherine have to have with each other. Catherine has to tell to his face how much he hurt her by showing Tori around without any regret or concerne about what that would do with Cat's heart. Vincent has to be man enough to admit that he was wrong and that he knows what he lost and that he'll never cheat on her again. Actually, I still don't understand how is that the writers will prove that Vincent won't run away with the next redhead that appears in his sight again since they made a point to prove that Vincent is a cheater when they brought Gabriella to the show. Once a cheater, always a cheater. BTW, BatB always have good Internet traffic. In fact, it slowed down a little after the turkey trauma.
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