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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 11, 2014 16:21:28 GMT -5
It's a double edge sword here...Remember Catherine wouldn't only be protecting Vincent but also herself and her family...bio dad ...and her mom who in all honesty Started this whole mess...she was key in the experiments with Gabe..she knew about what they were doing to soldiers Vincent included and she was also trying to fix her own mess...So in all honesty she was t only protecting or covering Vincent's BUTT but also hers i am not sure i understand what you mean here dear ? yes we can say Cat is covering for all of them here , the same way we can say if V implicates her he will be implicates himself also , i mean he can't turn Cat in without turning himself in and telling the whole truth, he did so many things against the law , right ? that is why i doubted he will do this , not just because it is to low and will definitely looks like a cheap revenge because she shoot him , and the 2 situation is so different , when Cat shoot him she has not a previous intention to do that , her act was out of the moment and it was not her plan at all, and she beg him to stop and put down her gun when she thought she convinced him but to get the press to expose her in front of them , that some thing you have to think about it and arrange it before , it mean he does it on purpose to hurt her for revenge as i said , how can any one does this to some one he loved once and dreamed of sharing the whole life with him ?! i mean you may some time hurt the people you love against your will , but to do this on purpose and asking for revenge from them , that is a lowest any one can reach ! again even if he reach that low ( then i don't know what is left from them or their love or how can you ever fix this) he will turn himself and expose himself either and it doesn't make any sense !i think yolie's point was different here to be fair i dont think she was saying vincent was justified in going out and talking about cat and what happened. i think she was merely stating that what cat did was not necessary purely due to the fact that she was covering his butt (though this was one of her key motivations cause she loves him lots) but she was also protecting herself and others. did i get that right yolie?
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Post by sunshine978 on Jan 11, 2014 16:27:39 GMT -5
Julz......so many Excellent points!! I think some people just can't look past ....'OMG, Cat shot Vincent!!'.......there is so much before, during and after aspects to the whole scene. Frankly, that whole Vincent and Cat scene in the boathouse just upsets me. Vincent REALLY DOES NOT KNOW CATHERINE. People forget that Vincent from Season 1 wanted Catherine to protect herself if he lost control and Beasted-Out. He wanted her to Tranq him AND Cat held a gun to him before BEGGING HIM TO CALM DOWN. She asked him to "be with me" and Vincent calmed down. If Vincent cared and trusted Catherine like he did in Season 1, he would of 'stand down'......but Vincent went to kill Bob, PERIOD!! No matter what Bob did, he IS THE KEY to so many things........Vincent had to know that......but, he chose to kill Bob. Vincent was clearly Out of Control. Vincent's "hate" for Bob was stronger than his "love" for Catherine. Vincent wasn't going to kill Bob so that he and Cat could be "free"...........No, Vincent was going to kill Bob for pure revenge. Is that justified.......? Pure revenge killing, is it ever justified?? Vincent at that moment was a killing machine, Catherine had No Choice.....as a cop, in full apprehension of a Criminal,........was justified in stopping Vincent however necessary. So she shot him. That is why Vincent's outburst........"you shot me!!" tells me a lot about him......that even though Cat told him that killing Bob was wrong and that he would cross a line with her AND THAT SHE TEARFULLY BEGGED HIM TO STOP...........he went for the kill anyway. Vincent didn't consider Catherine not once when he caused the car to wreck, with her in it..........he didn't consider Catherine when she was knocked unconscious in the car........ Vincent stopped for 1 second while he listened to Cat's pleas.........but, disregarded them and went for the kill. It bothers me that Vincent can't see any of the ramifications of that whole scenario in that Boathouse scene. It is ALL CATHERINE'S FAULT!! It is sad, but it solely puts the blame on Catherine............and I think that is unfair and unjustified. And that's where I have to step in and ask why "Adorable" Kern is waiting for we to assume that Vincent regained most of his memories back. Not a single one of his actions shows it and not a single time he acknowledged that, once, he had a soul and Catherine was important to that soul. Obviously these memories are gone and won't come back and Kern don't give a damn for it and for the story that was told last season. Unfair doesn't cover what I think about all of this.I have 3 of my favourite and respectful people Jaded Julz, Vincent Chandler and Fired Up Beastie so I thought I should comment...The fact that Vincent has regained most of his memories according to Brad Kern is a massive disservice to fans! Regaining his memories - ALL of it would have been a WOW moment and would have satisfied a lot of fans. Season 2 is a completely different show from SEason 1 and the characters, ALL of them are unrecognizable .....Vincent's memories of CAtherine is extremely significant to the show; it is what drew us to Vincent and to their love story. So does Kern now want/expect viewers to 'forget' about Season 1 Vincent, the same way Vincent has?!
Kern mentioned in an interview that he (Kern) had amnesia when he was in his 20's and he said that he never got all of his memories back or he doesn't know if he has gotten all back - I think he said it's what happens when you have amnesia But BatB is a tv show and NOT Kern's life! They want realistic storylines, but at the end of the day, this is a tv show! And they want drama too, so here's an opportunity they SHOULD utilise because Vincent retrieving his memories would be dramatic and wouldn't cause so many viewers to QUESTION whether or not Vincent remembers aspects of his life - viewers should NOT have to wonder or question Vincent's actions/words. I have been reading and I expect fans to continue to say things like "But this isn't like Vincent" or "This is so out of character for Vincent" or "Vincent would never do/say that!".......BUT WHICH VINCENT? Season 1 or Season 2 Vincent? Partially amnesiac Vincent or regained-all-of-his-memories Vincent? That is the question. Having Brad Kern as a show runner was a mistake and it has pushed a lot of fans away, like me.
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Post by raniamahd on Jan 11, 2014 16:48:49 GMT -5
i am not sure i understand what you mean here dear ? yes we can say Cat is covering for all of them here , the same way we can say if V implicates her he will be implicates himself also , i mean he can't turn Cat in without turning himself in and telling the whole truth, he did so many things against the law , right ? that is why i doubted he will do this , not just because it is to low and will definitely looks like a cheap revenge because she shoot him , and the 2 situation is so different , when Cat shoot him she has not a previous intention to do that , her act was out of the moment and it was not her plan at all, and she beg him to stop and put down her gun when she thought she convinced him but to get the press to expose her in front of them , that some thing you have to think about it and arrange it before , it mean he does it on purpose to hurt her for revenge as i said , how can any one does this to some one he loved once and dreamed of sharing the whole life with him ?! i mean you may some time hurt the people you love against your will , but to do this on purpose and asking for revenge from them , that is a lowest any one can reach ! again even if he reach that low ( then i don't know what is left from them or their love or how can you ever fix this) he will turn himself and expose himself either and it doesn't make any sense ! i think yolie's point was different here to be fair i dont think she was saying vincent was justified in going out and talking about cat and what happened. i think she was merely stating that what cat did was not necessary purely due to the fact that she was covering his butt (though this was one of her key motivations cause she loves him lots) but she was also protecting herself and others. did i get that right yolie? as i said i don't get what dear Yolie meant , and that is why i asked ? and i thought i have to explain more why i really doubt V will turn Cat in , for emotional reasons and for practical reasons too ! so i will be shocked if he did it ! not shocked from V because after all C and V is just a TV characters not real , they don't act from their own ?! i will be shocked from the writers ? i will be shocked they dare to reach this low point , i will be sure then that they are out of their minds ! they said trust us , real love never dies --- but real love doesn't mean hurting the one you love on purpose , making her loss the one thing left for her ( her work) , asking for revenge from her , arrange , plan and go for it ?! i can't find the words now but that possibility is simply impossible and the writers can't be that crazy ?!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 11, 2014 16:53:14 GMT -5
i think yolie's point was different here to be fair i dont think she was saying vincent was justified in going out and talking about cat and what happened. i think she was merely stating that what cat did was not necessary purely due to the fact that she was covering his butt (though this was one of her key motivations cause she loves him lots) but she was also protecting herself and others. did i get that right yolie? as i said i don't get what dear Yolie meant , and that is why i asked ? and i thought i have to explain more why i really doubt V will turn Cat in , for emotional reasons and for practical reasons too ! so i will be shocked if he did it ! not shocked from V because after all C and V is just a TV characters not real , they don't act from their own ?! i will be shocked from the writers ? i will be shocked they dare to reach this low point , i will be sure then that they are out of their minds ! they said trust us , real love never dies --- but real love doesn't mean hurting the one you love on purpose , making her loss the one thing left for her ( her work) , asking for revenge from her , arrange , plan and go for it ?! i can't find the words now but that possibility is simply impossible and the writers can't be that crazy ?! i doubt he will turn her in, i doubt he would do anything to purposefully hurt her to be fair.
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Post by Rysa on Jan 11, 2014 17:36:40 GMT -5
The old Vincent is gone and I don't really this he will come back. To be honest I don't really like the new Vincent, I almost hate him for what he has done to Cat. In 208 seems that he act egoistic, thinking his thirst of killing Agent Reynolds, I don't blame for this but he's lost, the beast side is more stronger than his humanity. He does not care at all about the begging' Cat to let him arrested (Bio-Dad) and she was obliged to shoot him. There was no option for this or another way. Vincent is more stronger if she tried another way. Probably she must hurt more than this. Cat could be dead in that car accident, Vincent does not care so much. I don't see any blame for Cat. Vincent is responsible for what happened. I am totally pissed off by the fact he dares to blame her for not choosing him over her Bio-Dad. Come on, she is a cop and she has cover him many times. Enough is enough! Vincent must to learn and take his lesson. He was unfair to her! Where is the love they have? This epic love was gone! Cat is angry and hurt by his words and I guess she hold her tears in front of him. Why Vincent hid that is pain in front of Cat?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 11, 2014 17:49:57 GMT -5
The old Vincent is gone and I don't really this he will come back. To be honest I don't really like the new Vincent, I almost hate him for what he has done to Cat. In 208 seems that he act egoistic, thinking his thirst of killing Agent Reynolds, I don't blame for this but he's lost, the beast side is more stronger than his humanity. He does not care at all about the begging' Cat to let him arrested (Bio-Dad) and she was obliged to shoot him. There was no option for this or another way. Vincent is more stronger if she tried another way. Probably she must hurt more than this. Cat could be dead in that car accident, Vincent does not care so much. I don't see any blame for Cat. Vincent is responsible for what happened. I am totally pissed off by the fact he dares to blame her for not choosing him over her Bio-Dad. Come on, she is a cop and she has cover him many times. Enough is enough! Vincent must to learn and take his lesson. He was unfair to her! Where is the love they have? This epic love was gone! Cat is angry and hurt by his words and I guess she hold her tears in front of him. Why Vincent hid that is pain in front of Cat? it is amazing that we all see it from so many different perspectives i personally really feel for vincent (and for cat) - for both of them the argument about him not checking on cat i dont agree with - i am pretty sure with all his heightened senses etc he could instantly tell she was fine and not injured (which wa sthe case) regarding the bio dad thing - this guy destroyed his life. completely destroyed his life - we all know why. i can completely understand how his beast side took over fuelled by his anger. and also we are not sure what would have happened had cat not shot him, he may have managed to restrain himself we just dont know and cat shooting him, that i can understand too from her perspective. and even though vincent is different in season 2 (a lot) he is not completely different, and i dont feel he has acted like a monster though he has found it extremely difficult controlling hsi beastly side i can also understand him blaming her for not choosing him - the bio dad completely destroyed his and their life together. cat is the only person vincent could and can rely on, the only person he could trust. and the bio dad was enemy number 1. but i dont think in the clip vincent was angry at cat and i think above all he wanted to protect her. hence his last sentence "at least u wont have to cover for me anymore", which goes back to vincent 1.o and him not feeling worthy. and i think he hid his pain from cat cause he didnt want her to see how much she had actually hurt him, he did it for completely selfless reasons
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Post by Rysa on Jan 11, 2014 18:05:45 GMT -5
The old Vincent is gone and I don't really this he will come back. To be honest I don't really like the new Vincent, I almost hate him for what he has done to Cat. In 208 seems that he act egoistic, thinking his thirst of killing Agent Reynolds, I don't blame for this but he's lost, the beast side is more stronger than his humanity. He does not care at all about the begging' Cat to let him arrested (Bio-Dad) and she was obliged to shoot him. There was no option for this or another way. Vincent is more stronger if she tried another way. Probably she must hurt more than this. Cat could be dead in that car accident, Vincent does not care so much. I don't see any blame for Cat. Vincent is responsible for what happened. I am totally pissed off by the fact he dares to blame her for not choosing him over her Bio-Dad. Come on, she is a cop and she has cover him many times. Enough is enough! Vincent must to learn and take his lesson. He was unfair to her! Where is the love they have? This epic love was gone! Cat is angry and hurt by his words and I guess she hold her tears in front of him. Why Vincent hid that is pain in front of Cat? it is amazing that we all see it from so many different perspectives i personally really feel for vincent (and for cat) - for both of them the argument about him not checking on cat i dont agree with - i am pretty sure with all his heightened senses etc he could instantly tell she was fine and not injured (which wa sthe case) regarding the bio dad thing - this guy destroyed his life. completely destroyed his life - we all know why. i can completely understand how his beast side took over fuelled by his anger. and also we are not sure what would have happened had cat not shot him, he may have managed to restrain himself we just dont know and cat shooting him, that i can understand too from her perspective. and even though vincent is different in season 2 (a lot) he is not completely different, and i dont feel he has acted like a monster though he has found it extremely difficult controlling hsi beastly side i can also understand him blaming her for not choosing him - the bio dad completely destroyed his and their life together. cat is the only person vincent could and can rely on, the only person he could trust. and the bio dad was enemy number 1. but i dont think in the clip vincent was angry at cat and i think above all he wanted to protect her. hence his last sentence "at least u wont have to cover for me anymore", which goes back to vincent 1.o and him not feeling worthy. and i think he hid his pain from cat cause he didnt want her to see how much she had actually hurt him, he did it for completely selfless reasons It's true but all opinion/comments are respectful, at least from me. I see it from different view but I try to see both sides. I am more on Cat's side than to Vincent. You make me realize that Vincent feel more hurt, I feel it in his words. Maybe feeling disappointed by Cat cause he did not expect to shoot him but she did, me neither. I was totally shocked about her action but it's understanding. I guess he hid his pain cause he does not want to feel pity for him or due to the hurt feeling. I don't know. I feel annoyed by Tori's presence. She has heard all the conversation from upstairs. This is not a privacy moment. She could go for a walk and let them alone.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 11, 2014 18:11:51 GMT -5
it is amazing that we all see it from so many different perspectives i personally really feel for vincent (and for cat) - for both of them the argument about him not checking on cat i dont agree with - i am pretty sure with all his heightened senses etc he could instantly tell she was fine and not injured (which wa sthe case) regarding the bio dad thing - this guy destroyed his life. completely destroyed his life - we all know why. i can completely understand how his beast side took over fuelled by his anger. and also we are not sure what would have happened had cat not shot him, he may have managed to restrain himself we just dont know and cat shooting him, that i can understand too from her perspective. and even though vincent is different in season 2 (a lot) he is not completely different, and i dont feel he has acted like a monster though he has found it extremely difficult controlling hsi beastly side i can also understand him blaming her for not choosing him - the bio dad completely destroyed his and their life together. cat is the only person vincent could and can rely on, the only person he could trust. and the bio dad was enemy number 1. but i dont think in the clip vincent was angry at cat and i think above all he wanted to protect her. hence his last sentence "at least u wont have to cover for me anymore", which goes back to vincent 1.o and him not feeling worthy. and i think he hid his pain from cat cause he didnt want her to see how much she had actually hurt him, he did it for completely selfless reasons It's true but all opinion/comments are respectful, at least from me. I see it from different view but I try to see both sides. I am more on Cat's side than to Vincent. You make me realize that Vincent feel more hurt, I feel it in his words. Maybe feeling disappointed by Cat cause he did not expect to shoot him but she did, me neither. I was totally shocked about her action but it's understanding. I guess he hid his pain cause he does not want to feel pity for him or due to the hurt feeling. I don't know. I feel annoyed by Tori's presence. She has heard all the conversation from upstairs. This is not a privacy moment. She could go for a walk and let them alone. of course she could but why would she - based on what i saw in previous episodes she is very territorial, opinionated and she really thinks her and vincent have more in common than him and cat. and she is not particularly tactile either. plus she cannot at all understand why cat shot vincent and would therefore not want to give them any space. i am pretty sure she dislikes cat, one cause she shot vincent an two cause she is territorial over him... so yes it would have been ncie and noble of her to not interfere and speak badly to cat and to also leave them alone, but based on her character, personality and how she goes about things it would not makesense or be realistic.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 11, 2014 18:14:15 GMT -5
yolie, just realised we are at 95 pages, lets see if we get to a 100 i have a feeling we will lol
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Post by raniamahd on Jan 11, 2014 18:14:35 GMT -5
Question: Is this the episode where a new "Hero" emerges?? no dear it is e 11
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Jan 11, 2014 18:15:29 GMT -5
I really liked the sneak peek. At first, I rolled my eyes when Catherine said she just came to make sure Vincent was okay. I was like are you seriously the one going there and making the effort AGAIN? However, she did shoot Vincent, which hurt both of them deeply, on emotional and physical levels. So I think her checking on him is warranted. I love the emotions in the scene. It is so nice to feel some raw emotion from Vincent. They are in a total predicament here and there's kind of no way out right now. I love the line where Vincent says, "You chose him over me." To me, that shows how deeply that cut Vincent - which means Catherine's opinion of him and affection for him is important to him. And that's more emotion toward Catherine than I've seen Vincent show in a while. The raw pain is giving me Vincat feels that I've been lacking. After everything Bob did to those beasts, to Vincent - how he took away his life - his life with Catherine - his memories - Bob was a monster and a beast in these actions himself and Vincent is thinking, how could you choose him over me? Now on the Catherine side, she says, "I chose right over wrong." She's a cop - how could she justify letting Vincent murder him in cold blood? Or even for revenge? She has justified and understood so much of Vincent's killing, because most of the time, Vincent was protecting the innocent. But even that line was pushed with eliminating the beasts this season. However she still went out of her way to protect and help him. But now, how can she live with herself if she just stands there and lets a man be murdered and lets Vincent cross that moral line on her watch? She was hoping that Vincent would choose right and choose "them" over his hate and revenge, but he wasn't going to, so she did what she had to do. It's such a tough situation with so much gray area and I love the raw emotion in this scene. I hope they really run with that b/c I have missed these powerful exchanges between our leading characters. I'm not all doom and gloom about this ep now. I'm looking forward to it, and I'm hoping they really run with these emotions. I don't care/mind if this couple is really, truly broken up if it gets them somewhere in the long run. I'm with you. I love the sneak peek! It is a tough situation and there isn't a clear way through it. I have to say I'm pretty annoyed with some of the choices that have been made to get them into this situation to begin with, but I loved what I saw in the sneak peek which gives me something to look forward to again. I see and understand both viewpoints and I love seeing the raw emotions from both of them. Nevermind how they got into this mess. I'm finally interested in seeing how they get out of it. ETA: Having said that, this beastie can only handle so much of the redhead. She really ruins every scene she's in so far, which was almost all of 07 and 08 for me. I hope the writers get it together and minimize her part and quick.
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Post by Jubilant Judi on Jan 11, 2014 19:12:28 GMT -5
I am trying to see Tori in a neutral light - but as Vincent said - people like us either get better or worse - we don't stay the same - she seems to be following in her father's footsteps - he enjoyed the power his beast side gave him - and enjoyed crushing his opponents - there has to be consequences for actions - she needs to learn that lesson - I hope Vincent finds a way to integrate his beast and human sides - because I think he needs both to find peace - then he will be able to send she beast away and build a life with Catherine
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 11, 2014 19:15:58 GMT -5
I am trying to see Tori in a neutral light - but as Vincent said - people like us either get better or worse - we don't stay the same - she seems to be following in her father's footsteps - he enjoyed the power his beast side gave him - and enjoyed crushing his opponents - there has to be consequences for actions - she needs to learn that lesson - I hope Vincent finds a way to integrate his beast and human sides - because I think he needs both to find peace - then he will be able to send she beast away and build a life with Catherine i completely agree with that in bold regarding tori, i do not know how her character will develop over the next few episodes, but if it does as i suspect it will i feel that she will learn her lessons
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Jan 11, 2014 20:38:44 GMT -5
yolie, just realised we are at 95 pages, lets see if we get to a 100 i have a feeling we will lol This is what I thought when we got the Sneak Peak ! The closer we get to Showcase time, the more excited I become.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jan 11, 2014 20:45:51 GMT -5
It's a double edge sword here...Remember Catherine wouldn't only be protecting Vincent but also herself and her family...bio dad ...and her mom who in all honesty Started this whole mess...she was key in the experiments with Gabe..she knew about what they were doing to soldiers Vincent included and she was also trying to fix her own mess...So in all honesty she was t only protecting or covering Vincent's BUTT but also hers So true.........This mess is so vast ..........I just now wonder why there are "2" interrogations of Catherine?? Something changes or something is revealed that puts her under scrutiny and suspicion. I wonder too, what Reynolds was going to "confess" to exactly? Would he just confess to Windsor killing and setting up Tori? I just can't see him confessing about Muirfield or the Beasts........plus, that would just lead to Catherine at some point and Bob did say that he didn't want people to come back and ask Catherine questions. However, with "2" interrogations, I guess Bob's confessions didn't quite go as planned. I suspect too, that Gabe does some serious damage control.............can't imagine what he says or does.........but do we know if Catherine gets her gun/badge back at the end of the episode?? If she does, then I suspect that Gabe would be the only one to could make that happen for Catherine!! Question: Is this the episode where a new "Hero" emerges?? No the new hero emerges episode is Held Hostage episode 11 LOL AS for your questions about a double interrogation there are two..'Something' must happen for them to call her back in...It's logical isn't it?? Gabe is the 'one' who gets Catherine out of the mess..My theory is he goes into the evidence room and somehow changes or makes something disappear to CLEAR Catherine of any wrong doing. Because obviously in EP 10 she has her badge back seeing that she begins an FBI investigation with the new FBI agent chick
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