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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 20:39:45 GMT -5
I'm a little tired of your sob story, Cat. You're telling this to someone who has had it rougher than you.
Vincent is buoyed by the dinner invite but that kiss is making him cautious.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2017 20:50:50 GMT -5
Vincent stood up Cat and now he wakes up on top of a bridge. Not good. Until next time.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Mar 2, 2017 16:51:36 GMT -5
In regards to the opening of the episode, BEST BATB OPENING EVER!!!! I mean, wow, look at those abs! And those arms, and. . . . And Vincent looks like he is in agony--like he is warring with himself about maybe going and finding Cat.
And I LOVE this first conversation between JT and Vincent. JT clearly recognizes that Vincent must have spent time with Cat. And here, at least, JT is smiling about it. He recognizes that Vincent is actually HAPPY for once, particularly when Vincent comments about how Cat makes him feel like he has a life again. Vincent has been in hiding for so long and is thrilled to have something to actually look forward to.
And I got a kick out of the scene in the warehouse where JT and Cat are BOTH on the same side of scolding Vincent about keeping hidden from Muirfield. I mean, BOTH of them are standing on the opposite side of the table from a sitting Vincent. And THEN JT goes and admits that Vincent TOLD HIM that he feels "alive" since he met Cat. THAT LOOK that Vincent gives JT---it is like he is telling him to not break the Bro Code!
And Vincent and Cat are bonding and connecting---it is clearly going to be a "date" for her birthday. They were going to eat together and watch a movie. And Cat was excited about this and wanting to spend time with Vincent.
Quite frankly, it is VINCENT that messes things up in this one, in my opinion. WE KNOW that JT accidentally made Vincent feel guilty about pulling Cat further into their life. And YES, JT does have a point---even though he is willing to do anything for Vincent, even he didn't realize AT FIRST that he would have to lose everyone ELSE from his life. And Vincent does NOT want that for Cat.
But Vincent appears to blow Cat off. As if seeing her was NOT important to him---that he would rather build a safety/alarm system for the warehouse then spend the evening with Cat. He obviously makes Cat feel like he was just extending the invitation because she had nothing else to do for her birthday and he felt sorry for her. Clearly, Cat thinks that Vincent really might NOT want her around. AND GIVEN CAT'S DATING HISTORY, she thinks Vincent is basically like Zeke.
So a VULNERABLE (and almost drunk) Cat, who we find from the MISSING/DELETED SCENES has actually been talking to her shrink friend about Vincent almost all of the party, gets kissed by Cat. And she basically doesn't respond right away because she WAS feeling undesirable as a result of Vincent. BUT CAT QUICKLY LETS EVAN know that she did not take the kiss seriously, even though Evan tries to argue that she DID.
Of course, Vincent would HAVE to choose RIGHT THEN to drop off Cat's present, KNOWING Cat was having the birthday party at that time. I mean, WHAT was Vincent thinking? Oh right, he was feeling guilty about earlier with Cat AND was wanting to see her.
AND VINCENT'S PRESENT---we find out from the OUTTAKES that it WAS pajamas---meaning that Vincent is actually a guy that LISTENS to his girl. He remembered Cat telling him about her tradition of wearing pjs with her Mom on her birthday. So Vincent goes with a SENTIMENTAL gift. (And hey, we ALL KNOW that Vincent would like to be the one "celebrating" with Cat in pajamas!) And Cat will be clearly touched by Vincent's present.
So even VINCENT felt guilty for having treated Cat the way he did, which is WHY he risks EVERYTHING JUST to drop off her present. Only to see "the kiss." Vincent then thinks Cat is TRYING to move on from him. Which she was NOT. And this would NEVER have happened had VINCENT not had the earlier almost break-up TALK with Cat earlier.
So I actually wanted to strangle Vincent in this episode for the way he was PUSHING CAT AWAY. Cat does NOT handle rejection well (remember her having her ex-boyfriend arrested?), especially since Vincent OBVIOUSLY means so much to her already. Cat has broken all her rules to protect Vincent. She is HEAVILY EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in Vincent, and HE SEEMS to not be there at all. Vincent's speech to Cat makes it seem like he had thought that Cat wanted "more" and was making it clear to her that he did NOT. And THAT is how Cat takes it. So she gets drunk, and is vulnerable to an unexpected kiss from Evan. (Her brain was probably saying, "well, at least SOMEONE wants me.")
And Cat later clears the air with Vincent and makes it CLEAR that VINCENT is the one that she wants. And invites him to dinner. And expects him to show up. And Vincent is on the way to see her but fugues out on the way. And look at WHERE he wakes up!
So I see Cat as the more innocent victim in this one---she didn't ASK to be kissed and did NOT lead Evan on. She wanted VINCENT, who seemingly made it clear that he did NOT want her. Setting her up for heartache. And she waits up ALL NIGHT for him to show for dinner, even though he CLEARLY had stood her up.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Mar 2, 2017 17:04:01 GMT -5
As to the case in "Saturn Returns:"
I don't see Cat trying to claim her situation is the same as the young woman's. She just GETS how the woman feels. And, quite frankly, Vincent would be KILLED if Cat says or does the wrong thing. So in some ways, it IS just as serious. Vincent MUST play dead, or risk being killed off by the government or Muirfield. So Cat DOES understand the life the woman has lead.
And the case, again, leads Cat to the realization that she WOULD consider running off with Vincent, if he ever had to lead. And that it is NOT up to Vincent to decide whether or not Cat should risk a relationship with him---IT IS UP TO CAT to decide if she wants to have a relationship with Vincent or not.
So I get why the case is in the episode. It just is SO UNIMPORTANT in relation to everything else in the episode. And HOW on earth was everyone able to show up so early for WORK after having clearly drunk so much alcohol at Cat's party? Obviously, these cops have built up a tolerance!! (Rather concerning, if you ask me!)
But I, too, could do without the cases. That just was NOT the focus for BATB. Or, if they were going to do cases, they did not have to make them parallel Cat's life.
But the case still had merit, and one does see just how hard it is in witness protection when someone has to change their whole LIFE and always remain substantially hidden. And Cat handles the case SO WELL, getting the witness to TRUST HER because she obviously understands where the girl is coming from.
So "Saturn Returns" remains a favorite of mine DESPITE the disconnect between Vincent and Catherine. BECAUSE CLEARLY, in this episode, FOR THE FIRST TIME, you see how vested BOTH Vincent AND Catherine is in WANTING a romantic relationship with one another. BEFORE THIS EPISODE, the two had agreed to remaining in one another's lives. But it was as a "partner" on cases basis. After all, Vincent gave Cat his cell phone number "in case he wanted to help again" in a case. BUT IN THIS EPISODE, we see a Vincent lusting after Cat from afar, obviously wanting to go find her at the beginning of the episode.
Which brings up my last point---had JT not insisted on going with Vincent for his "walk," then Vincent probably WOULD have ended up at Cat's. I think he wrestled with himself in his bed until he couldn't take it anymore. He decided to go OUT, and his feet would have undoubtedly led him to Cat's. But JT intervened and insisted on going with him---probably because JT guessed EXACTLY where Vincent would have ended up. After all, JT guesses correctly that Vincent was "amped up" from Cat!
The writers wanted a means of keeping Cat and Vincent apart at this early stage. And Miscommunications and Missteps are always a great way to provide confusion and doubt. But this episode is HEARTBREAKING for both Vincent AND Cat at different points of the episode. Thinking that the OTHER IS MOVING ON (first for Cat at the warehouse when Vincent dismisses her so easily and second when Vincent observes "the kiss"), EACH ONE realizes JUST HOW MUCH they really want to be involved with one another on a romantic level, NOT just a friendship one.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 19:41:34 GMT -5
In regards to the opening of the episode, BEST BATB OPENING EVER!!!! I mean, wow, look at those abs! And those arms, and. . . . And Vincent looks like he is in agony--like he is warring with himself about maybe going and finding Cat.
And I LOVE this first conversation between JT and Vincent. JT clearly recognizes that Vincent must have spent time with Cat. And here, at least, JT is smiling about it. He recognizes that Vincent is actually HAPPY for once, particularly when Vincent comments about how Cat makes him feel like he has a life again. Vincent has been in hiding for so long and is thrilled to have something to actually look forward to.
And I got a kick out of the scene in the warehouse where JT and Cat are BOTH on the same side of scolding Vincent about keeping hidden from Muirfield. I mean, BOTH of them are standing on the opposite side of the table from a sitting Vincent. And THEN JT goes and admits that Vincent TOLD HIM that he feels "alive" since he met Cat. THAT LOOK that Vincent gives JT---it is like he is telling him to not break the Bro Code! I love how sweetly & somewhat shyly Vincent looks up at Cat after JT tells her V feels alive now.
And Vincent and Cat are bonding and connecting---it is clearly going to be a "date" for her birthday. They were going to eat together and watch a movie. And Cat was excited about this and wanting to spend time with Vincent.
Quite frankly, it is VINCENT that messes things up in this one, in my opinion. WE KNOW that JT accidentally made Vincent feel guilty about pulling Cat further into their life. And YES, JT does have a point---even though he is willing to do anything for Vincent, even he didn't realize AT FIRST that he would have to lose everyone ELSE from his life. And Vincent does NOT want that for Cat.
But Vincent appears to blow Cat off. As if seeing her was NOT important to him---that he would rather build a safety/alarm system for the warehouse then spend the evening with Cat. He obviously makes Cat feel like he was just extending the invitation because she had nothing else to do for her birthday and he felt sorry for her. Clearly, Cat thinks that Vincent really might NOT want her around. AND GIVEN CAT'S DATING HISTORY, she thinks Vincent is basically like Zeke. I thought Vincent was acting this way to protect her and move her along because he felt it would be best for her. She made it pretty clear she was struggling with this "2 world" life she was leading. She went at length telling him about the lies she was having to tell or that the people in her life didn't really know her. In fact, she said it not once but twice. I thought it was too much. What did she expect from him after saying all that? It was annoying me.
So a VULNERABLE (and almost drunk) Cat, who we find from the MISSING/DELETED SCENES has actually been talking to her shrink friend about Vincent almost all of the party, gets kissed by Cat. And she basically doesn't respond right away because she WAS feeling undesirable as a result of Vincent. BUT CAT QUICKLY LETS EVAN know that she did not take the kiss seriously, even though Evan tries to argue that she DID.
Of course, Vincent would HAVE to choose RIGHT THEN to drop off Cat's present, KNOWING Cat was having the birthday party at that time. I mean, WHAT was Vincent thinking? Oh right, he was feeling guilty about earlier with Cat AND was wanting to see her. Was he feeling guilty or did he want to observe another of her birthday parties? I like to think he just couldn't stay away from her.
AND VINCENT'S PRESENT---we find out from the OUTTAKES that it WAS pajamas---meaning that Vincent is actually a guy that LISTENS to his girl. He remembered Cat telling him about her tradition of wearing pjs with her Mom on her birthday. So Vincent goes with a SENTIMENTAL gift. (And hey, we ALL KNOW that Vincent would like to be the one "celebrating" with Cat in pajamas!) And Cat will be clearly touched by Vincent's present.
So even VINCENT felt guilty for having treated Cat the way he did, which is WHY he risks EVERYTHING JUST to drop off her present. Only to see "the kiss." Vincent then thinks Cat is TRYING to move on from him. Which she was NOT. And this would NEVER have happened had VINCENT not had the earlier almost break-up TALK with Cat earlier.
So I actually wanted to strangle Vincent in this episode for the way he was PUSHING CAT AWAY. Cat does NOT handle rejection well (remember her having her ex-boyfriend arrested?), especially since Vincent OBVIOUSLY means so much to her already. Cat has broken all her rules to protect Vincent. She is HEAVILY EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in Vincent, and HE SEEMS to not be there at all. Vincent's speech to Cat makes it seem like he had thought that Cat wanted "more" and was making it clear to her that he did NOT. And THAT is how Cat takes it. So she gets drunk, and is vulnerable to an unexpected kiss from Evan. (Her brain was probably saying, "well, at least SOMEONE wants me.")
And Cat later clears the air with Vincent and makes it CLEAR that VINCENT is the one that she wants. And invites him to dinner. And expects him to show up. And Vincent is on the way to see her but fugues out on the way. And look at WHERE he wakes up! When Vincent asks Cat how her birthday was and she says "horrible," you can see his wall go up due to "the kiss." Oh good, she is going into another of her woe is me explanations as to how hard her life is due to lying, etc. Really, Cat? Do you remember who you are talking to?
So I see Cat as the more innocent victim in this one---she didn't ASK to be kissed and did NOT lead Evan on. She wanted VINCENT, who seemingly made it clear that he did NOT want her. Setting her up for heartache. And she waits up ALL NIGHT for him to show for dinner, even though he CLEARLY had stood her up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:13:48 GMT -5
I won't be available tomorrow night for the rewatch so I'm going to do it now. Away I go with "Worth."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:24:22 GMT -5
I give Cat credit for coming by Vincent's place and inquiring about what happened. Honestly? I think I would have waited for him to contact me. He owes me an explanation for showing me up and making me feel like a fool.
Lack of communication, for their own reasons, has left both of them stung and they each retreat to a safer place emotionally.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:31:33 GMT -5
Love the scene with Evan, Cat's dad and Cat. Evan being playful and flirty with Cat is great!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:33:35 GMT -5
Good to see JT has smoothed over his awkwardness from the last time we saw him with Sarah. That was bad.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:40:27 GMT -5
Glad to see JT is relinquishing his position as president of the Stay Away From Catherine Club. He has finally realized Cat has Vincent's interest at heart, too, and that she can be trusted.
3 women bonding over a bridesmaid dress. I love Kristin's laugh.
Quite the height difference between KK and Lisa.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 11:58:28 GMT -5
I find it amazing how quickly the ladies found the paperwork they needed at the studio. Cat needs to relax about her future stepmom. Good to be cautious but trust your dad, too. There appears to be some baggage there between Cat and her Dad. I wouldn't have thought of Cat as being too judgmental but her dad clues us in she might tend to be? I love when Vincent shows up but am glad Cat has her wall up. V needs to do some of the work here. She has had her heart on her sleeve with him. Evan showing up is perfect and forces V to leave. After Evan arrives, it's decided he will join Cat on her case. I love how the point of view is shifted to Vincent's. He can only jealously look on as Evan is interacting with Cat as he would like to. No words are necessary for V or the viewer.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:06:47 GMT -5
Doesn't Vincent have his own computer? I guess it was a device to inform JT what was up.
While Vincent was chatting with the newsstand guy, I was wishing we had learned more about his parents. Do we know what happened to his mom?
I love the 3 musketeers at the art opening--Tess, Cat and Evan. Wish there had been more of that.
I love Vincent but he can be pretty creepy with his stalking-like behavior sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:28:05 GMT -5
Lots of unworthiness going on in this episode, Cat, Vincent, Brooke, Daphne...this case seemed odd for some reason.
Cat has been spurred on by Vincent's moving speech about worthiness. She apologizes to Brooke and then heads over to Vincent's.
I love the lighting for this scene as V stands in front of one of the windows. Cat is pouring her heart out, making herself vulnerable. Why didn't Vincent just come clean and tell her what is happening to him? It would make things easier for her and remove any lingering doubt she may have about them. I suppose his fear that it will scare her away is stronger than being honest with her. Again, it feels like she is doing the heavy lifting in this relationship.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2017 12:37:01 GMT -5
Overall, I liked this episode. I thought the case part of the story was weak. Although there were some good scenes between VinCat, I really enjoyed the ones between Cat and Evan (and Tess). I'm trying really hard not to be affected by the upcoming Alex arc but it's hard. These sweet, vulnerable scenes seem "worthless" (yep, I went there ) knowing how quickly Vincent chose Alex. Sigh.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Mar 8, 2017 20:08:09 GMT -5
"Worth" is another favorite of mine. Again, the episode starts with a recap. Trying to keep in line with the original BATB series I think. Plus, lets viewers know what has happened, the importance of Muirfield, etc.
WHY couldn't Vincent just TELL Cat what was going on? OBVIOUSLY, he is hurting her. (But Cat, if Vincent FORGOT to turn on the security system again, then something really WAS wrong--but Vincent's attitude here really just seems to confirm Cat's feelings in "Saturn Returns" that Vincent isn't really into her. YET, the sweet present left on her windowsill while the party was going on. . . So no wonder Cat is confused.)
And Cat FILES when she has "relationship issues." And Cat having to deal with her father's young bride as well.
Oh come on Daddy Chandler, understand WHY Cat doesn't want to pretend to be okay with the marriage. What kid ever is, ESPECIALLY with the beloved parent being dead AND the new "replacement" being so young.
Evan. Oh where to start. But it is clear in this episode that Evan really IS interested in Cat.
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