Least Favorite Moments on BATB

[Deleted]

Share with us your least favorite moments on BATB.

[joyabeast]

Vincent being with Tori. Any thing else I liked.

[Deleted]

Here are a few of my least favorite scenes to get started:

1. Not surprisingly, I didn't like the Vincent and Tori kiss in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. I'm still not sure what to think about what was really happening. Did V hear Cat's heartbeat and put on a show because he was heeding Reynolds' threat? Or, was he already under Tori's spell? He seemed pretty willing to take part in the kiss despite what he told Cat. If Cat hadn't brought up her conversation with her dad (When does this end? Making excuses?) would he have told her he was walking away? When he chased after her it didn't seem like he was going to go there. What I do know is V was looking mighty fine in that scene.
   
   
   
2. All scenes, especially the ones in S4, that deal with physically torturing Vincent I really disliked. However, scenes where he is emotionally tortured by Cat until they reconcile are just fine.  
   
   
3. I didn't like the scenes in Tough Love where Vincent meets Heather and Darius. In fact, when I re-watch that episode, I usually fast forward through those. It's quite awkward and it makes me really uncomfortable.

[Deleted]

In Seeing Red, I really disliked Vincent's (and for that matter Alex's) disregard for Cat's health, knowing she could have died in the accident. She had 2 procedures to save her life in less that 24 hours before. Just wow. Yay for Evan!


In Man or Beast I really disliked how Vincent caused the car crash of Cat and Reynolds and didn't care how she was.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

Pinkdaisies:  AMEN as to all of your least favorite moments.

I, too, found Vincent remarkably callous during the whole Alex arc.  By "Cold Turkey," Vincent acknowledges to JT that he made the wrong choices.  But it doesn't excuse his behavior AND comments, especially to Cat, throughout the whole thing.  And Vincent originally trying to excuse his behavior as wanting the girl that would most make HIM normal just made me want to be done with the whole thing.  I mean, really, he is saying that the girl is exchangeable as long as he gets the life that he wants.  (My thoughts were "run Cat run!" at this point.)  Vincent originally seemed so concerned after Cat first comes home from being shot, but after seemingly helping her, he basically badgers her for not moving forward with him.  Cat, showing good judgment, calls him out for his actions and shows a reluctance at this point because she can visibly see that Vincent seems divided about Alex.  By the end of the episode when Cat is willing to face her fears and has come to tell Vincent that she wants to move forward with him, he is quite content to just throw her aside and break her heart.  Over a person he has been without for a decade and who is isn't even willing to tell about his beast-side.  As if he could EVER be truly free from it.  At that point, Vincent COULDN'T control himself and had JUST gotten over the whole fugue-state thing.  So really Vincent?  You reject the person you KNOW would put her life on the line for you and accepts ALL of you?   

Vincent's seeming to be almost miserable with Alex in "Cold Turkey" didn't make me feel much better.  He seemed determined to be on a path that would only punish and make miserable all involved.  SAME PRINCIPLES apply with Tori.  Vincent is so willing and quick to immediately jump in bed with Tori seemingly as revenge for Cat not sanctioning his killing of Reynolds.  Vincent clearly does not love Tori as you readily see by the ending of "Held Hostage," yet he is clearly still living and sleeping with her at the beginning of 212.  Yet he can't help but run from the bed he has just fornicated in to talk on the phone with Cat.  He can barely talk to Tori after she catches him on the phone, and he ABSOLUTELY WILL NOT answer her DIRECT QUESTION, which she had the right to ask and expect answered, as to whether or not he truly wanted to be back with Cat.  And if Vincent KNOWS he can't answer this question with a "no" answer, then he should NOT have been with Tori. 

Vincent's morals and principles from "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner?" forward were just heinous in my opinion.  Vincent seemed willing to sacrifice his relationship with Cat entirely to get the name of whoever his handler had been in order to go after the person.  So revenge was ALREADY far more important to him than love.  By presenting Vincent in so NEGATIVE a light and making him be a guy that seemed so selfish made it almost impossible to recognize him, let alone the couple I had come to so love. 

S2 Vincent and Cat seemed unable to weather any storm whatsoever and didn't seem to even WANT to be together from "Reunion" forward until 211 when they finally remembered how to work together.  And seemingly remembered the FRIENDSHIP and strong relationship traits that had brought them together in the first place.  Still, I don't believe VinCat were together JUST because they had like-minded goals, and it was just amazingly disjointed and horrific for so much of the first part of Season 2, with everyone acting frayed, worn-out, and just unlike themselves AND their ethical beliefs. 

YES, I get that TRAUMA influenced everyone.  While trauma can provide some insight, you still are ultimately responsible for your actions.  And VinCat had BOTH been previously traumatized before.  So why deal so achingly badly with everything and do what can ONLY isolate one further??  Sigh. 

Trying to present VinCat as hitting rock-bottom in Season 2 just wasn't the best plotline for me.  But the writers still often made interesting television even if I wholeheartedly hated multiple scenes, episodes and moments from the season.  HOWEVER, moments in 211 AND 212 make them FAVORITES of mine, even though these same two episodes have some of My Least Favorite Moments from Season 2.  Hard to imagine episodes being able to have BOTH these EXTREME high and low moments in individual episodes.  But that was often the case with the VinCat relationship it seems.    

AND HE FREAKING GETS CAT KNOCKED UNCONCIOUS in trying to get Reynolds.

[alwayscrazedbatbfan]

So obviously still not over Reynolds' moments from Season 2 OR Vincent's actions pre-211. 

But by the end of 211, Vincent seems remarkably close to returning to himself.  He is staring wonderously into Cat's eyes, even while still on the floor in the precinct with her after a sniper has just taken out the last bad guy in the room.  It is like Vincent is waking up from his bad dream.  And I REFUSE to give the gem the entire credit for this.  ALL it seemingly takes is to remember what it is like to work with Cat.  SO WHY OH WHY did he have to just completely trust Tori and HER plans of revenge earlier and throw everything over with Cat.  ESPECIALLY when he is so willing to get Cat killed in that car scene. 

But 212 presents a Vincent who is just choosing to originally ignore what all the signs are telling him.  He is still sleeping with Tori, yet he so quickly breaks up with her after seeing Cat with Gabe at JT's party.  Yet is seemingly waffling while talking with Cat, who doesn't get (no wonder) that Vincent's question of "are we just friends?" means that he ACTUALLY IS questioning the rationale of being JUST friends when he wants so much more by this point.  But Cat doesn't get what Vincent is really asking her, and her reply seemingly had Vincent resigned to try to make things work with Tori.  But Tori's death intercedes, and Vincent FINALLY gets his wake-up call.  He realizes he could lose Tori and be fine.  Losing Cat, however, he KNOWS would break him.  But Cat seeing Vincent's guilt over Tori's corpse thinks it means Vincent truly loved her and had moved on.  Heartbreaking. 

So Reynolds and Tori contribute to my Least Favorite Moments.  Even though I didn't like the petty bickering of S3 and really find no motivation to rewatch those episodes, I don't hate them.  But Season 2 can STILL get me all riled up.  So my Least Favorite Moments HAVE to feature episodes 205 through 210. 

And yes, I hated the WHOLE Gabe and Catherine deal.  But Vincent really pushed Cat there, both by his words and deeds.  So somehow, Cat gets a pass from me.  Maybe unfair, but Vincent encouraged her in every way.  So Cat felt Vincent was lost to her, and never having gotten over him in the first place, she just wanted the pain to stop.  And Gabe AT THAT PRESENT TIME seemed like the closest thing to Vincent, in both words and deeds.  SO I GET why she went there.  Except that when you consider S1, you can't see HOW she could ever go there, as Gabe's actions in S1 show that he ultimately ONLY cares for his own selfish interests, which is at the core of his being.  (But Cat is forgiving and probably wants to believe that her own mother wasn't wrong in using so many resources to save Gabe's life back when he was a child.  Her mother was fond of Gabe and secured a good home for him.  This childhood recommendation ultimately backfires, but the fact that Gabe was worth saving once may have been a factor in swaying Cat that Gabe could change.  PLUS, on some level, it must have registered with Cat about how much VINCENT had changed due to trauma and intervention, and then could change again.  So people changing was something that Cat, like her mother, believed in.  Sigh.  They BOTH chose the wrong guy to place their hopes on.) 

[Deleted]

Sept 30, 2016 15:53:58 GMT -5 alwayscrazedbatbfan said:

But Tori's death intercedes, and Vincent FINALLY gets his wake-up call.  He realizes he could lose Tori and be fine.  Losing Cat, however, he KNOWS would break him.  But Cat seeing Vincent's guilt over Tori's corpse thinks it means Vincent truly loved her and had moved on.  Heartbreaking. 

Love this alwayscrazedbatbfan.

[joyabeast]

I understood why they fought in s3, I mean after what happened in s2. Yes Cat loves Vincent but she couldn't just let him do what he wants, since he clearly can't be trusted on his own. Every time he had an idea things just falls apart. Like when in s2 he wanted revenge from Bob and in s4 to be a fugitive again. Honestly I felt that maybe if he told DHS the whole truth about beast and Hill they could still be in New York and have a true happy ending.

[Deleted]

Despite reading several reviews with analysis, I have never really understood Vincent in the Alex arc. I can understand how confusing an ex coming back into your life must be, particularly in Vincent's situation. However, wasn't it pointed out a few times that he actually broke things off with her before going into the military? Yet, Cat finds letters alluding to Vincent and Alex's wedding. 

Vincent was giving off mixed signals to Cat. He kept coming around her place. He would question why they aren't moving forward and blaming that on her. Yet, several times when they were talking about the situation, he didn't step up either. I really wanted to hear him finish his, "But you and me..." Or hear him elaborate on his, "But this doesn't change us." What did he honestly expect her to say to that when in the same conversation he proudly points out his history with Alex--6 years and an entire childhood. Why did he look disappointed when Cat said it's really none of her business? Why does he get angry when she says she's cold turkey? Were these scenes heavily edited? I needed something to show he was conflicted--a conversation with JT, a happy flashback with Cat, anything!! It was so heartbreaking to watch Cat go through this. Kudos to Kristin for her wonderful performance.

Another thing has been bothering me. When JT sends Cat off to the cabin to warn Vincent, he says there was a small engagement party at a certain location. What does that really mean? While on the trip to the cabin, Vincent says, "If we move forward..." to Alex who gets him to correct it to "When." Are we supposed to think they are engaged?

On a side note, are we to assume Alex was killed?

[joyabeast]

Sept 30, 2016 19:09:21 GMT -5 @pinkdaisies said:

Despite reading several reviews with analysis, I have never really understood Vincent in the Alex arc. I can understand how confusing an ex coming back into your life must be, particularly in Vincent's situation. However, wasn't it pointed out a few times that he actually broke things off with her before going into the military? Yet, Cat finds letters alluding to Vincent and Alex's wedding. 

Vincent was giving off mixed signals to Cat. He kept coming around her place. He would question why they aren't moving forward and blaming that on her. Yet, several times when they were talking about the situation, he didn't step up either. I really wanted to hear him finish his, "But you and me..." Or hear him elaborate on his, "But this doesn't change us." What did he honestly expect her to say to that when in the same conversation he proudly points out his history with Alex--6 years and an entire childhood. Why did he look disappointed when Cat said it's really none of her business? Why does he get angry when she says she's cold turkey? Were these scenes heavily edited? I needed something to show he was conflicted--a conversation with JT, a happy flashback with Cat, anything!! It was so heartbreaking to watch Cat go through this. Kudos to Kristin for her wonderful performance.

Another thing has been bothering me. When JT sends Cat off to the cabin to warn Vincent, he says there was a small engagement party at a certain location. What does that really mean? While on the trip to the cabin, Vincent says, "If we move forward..." to Alex who gets him to correct it to "When." Are we supposed to think they are engaged?

On a side note, are we to assume Alex was killed?

Don't know and don't care.

[bbatb]

Sept 30, 2016 19:09:21 GMT -5 @pinkdaisies said:

Despite reading several reviews with analysis, I have never really understood Vincent in the Alex arc. I can understand how confusing an ex coming back into your life must be, particularly in Vincent's situation. However, wasn't it pointed out a few times that he actually broke things off with her before going into the military? Yet, Cat finds letters alluding to Vincent and Alex's wedding. 

Vincent was giving off mixed signals to Cat. He kept coming around her place. He would question why they aren't moving forward and blaming that on her. Yet, several times when they were talking about the situation, he didn't step up either. I really wanted to hear him finish his, "But you and me..." Or hear him elaborate on his, "But this doesn't change us." What did he honestly expect her to say to that when in the same conversation he proudly points out his history with Alex--6 years and an entire childhood. Why did he look disappointed when Cat said it's really none of her business? Why does he get angry when she says she's cold turkey? Were these scenes heavily edited? I needed something to show he was conflicted--a conversation with JT, a happy flashback with Cat, anything!! It was so heartbreaking to watch Cat go through this. Kudos to Kristin for her wonderful performance.

Another thing has been bothering me. When JT sends Cat off to the cabin to warn Vincent, he says there was a small engagement party at a certain location. What does that really mean? While on the trip to the cabin, Vincent says, "If we move forward..." to Alex who gets him to correct it to "When." Are we supposed to think they are engaged?

On a side note, are we to assume Alex was killed?

I think the Alex arc was a combination of: not really knowing how to stop this freight train of Vincent and Catherine REALLY getting together so soon, of problematic writing and some plot holes.

1. Sherri and Jennifer modernized BATB and with that you also have the premise of modern couples dating and having sex rather quickly. However, that presented the problem of how to delay THAT event from happening too soon in S1. So, they threw in Alex as a road block to drag things out and keep the sexual tension and this yearning to get together for as long as possible. Brad Kern later complained in an interview that he thought that they still got together much too soon and that is why HE came up with this brilliant idea of breaking them apart and making them earn their love. His idea IMO was okay, just the execution was horrible for all the reasons - and more - that alwayscrazedbatbfan already pointed out.

2. Problematic writing: Vincent was definitely giving off mixed signals to Catherine and putting the blame on HER for not moving forward was the worst. I sometimes felt that the writers had painted themselves into a corner and did not know how to get out of it again. Don't even get me started on the timelines: they are totally screwed up ALL THE TIME in this show. I am going with this scenario: Vincent and Alex got engaged, then he broke up with Alex right before he enlisted and then he apparently had a fling with this Gabriella chick during basic training and while he was in Afganistan, he started writing to Alex and they made up and talked wedding and considered themselved engaged again.

3. Plot holes galore: If Vincent got engaged to Alex where is her ring? If she is soooo hung up on him even after 10 years, there is no way that she would NOT wear the ring still. It is doubtful that Vincent would enlist as a regular soldier. He is a doctor and would join as an officer, especially since they needed doctors over there and he took an oath to help and heal when he became a doctor. Of course THAT would have killed the whole 'becoming a beast' plot. LOL. So, lets just assume that he WANTED to go over there to fight and kill the enemy and not to heal his wounded fellow soldiers.

4. I am going with we ARE to assume that Alex was killed. Otherwise, why even bother with the last scene where the Muirfield assassin gets into the seat behind her on the bus? One could argue that it was put in to keep us guessing - and it worked actually, because there were many discussions and suggestions about that scene and up to S4 some people suggested that maybe Alex might be the NEW BEAST.

[Deleted]

I am liking your theories, bbatb.

[bbatb]

Sept 30, 2016 16:04:57 GMT -5 @pinkdaisies said:

Sept 30, 2016 15:53:58 GMT -5 alwayscrazedbatbfan said:

But Tori's death intercedes, and Vincent FINALLY gets his wake-up call.  He realizes he could lose Tori and be fine.  Losing Cat, however, he KNOWS would break him.  But Cat seeing Vincent's guilt over Tori's corpse thinks it means Vincent truly loved her and had moved on.  Heartbreaking. 

Love this alwayscrazedbatbfan.

The scene where Catherine witnesses Vincent breaking down over Tori's body in pain and despair is played so wonderfully by KK. She is able to convey just with her facial expression the sorrow she feels for Vincent being in pain and her own sorrow for realizing that he obviously loved Tori. It makes her decision to then turn to the ADA-from-hell a bit more logical, but still never understandable for ME. Forgiving the guy who tried to kill me and the love of my life in cold blood to save his own sorry hide is one thing, but to completeley forget what he did and to want to start a relationship with that man is IMO insane and no trauma can justify that action.

What I really hated in 212 is that the break-up between Tori and Vincent happened outside the Guild without ANY witnesses. So, as far as Catherine is concerned, they did NOT break up and it was just another case of another redhead falling by the wayside and Vincent turning to her as his second choice AGAIN. Also, as break-ups go, this one was really not very clearly defined and Vincent was dancing around the issue. Tori went straight back home to the boat and waited there. She did not pack her bags and check into a hotel or something like that and when she later called Vincent to apologize and he told her about JT missing, he said for her not to worry and that he would explain it all to her when he got HOME. That sounded really cozy and NOT AT ALL like they had just broken up and, of course, Catherine witnessed THAT conversation. So, SHE never knew that they had supposedly seperated.

[joyabeast]

BATB never knew how to use triangle properly. It should be someone who makes a true love interest not someone unrealistic that enrage fans.

[sweetrosie29]

For me any scenes with Vincent and Tori and Cat and Gabe were and still are a no no and one if the big things for me was when you had Cat kissing Gabe in the police station I was like WTF are you doing, and also having Tess as it seemed their personal cheer leading squad and pushing Cat towards Gabe and keep on at Gabe to admit how much he liked Cat I really at times didn't like Tess at times in season 2.

Agree to about how quick Vincent was to go with Tori's ideas and totally pushing Cat's ideas and her to one side at times just like with Tess I didn't like Vincent in season 2