|
Post by missingalias on Jun 28, 2016 15:58:14 GMT -5
Didn't Evan also talk about cats mum dying ten years back? Wasn't it supposed to be ten years already on s1? Also now after watching four times you get loads and loads of nuances not noticeable on the first watch. For example Vincent's memory being better or worse depending on his condition in the real world. It was a nice touch and also some dialogue they used from before. Some of which V could not have knows but a nice nod anyway. Also they explained why Vanessa left Reynolds (don't think that was discussed before?). I don't know. So many new things that I can't remember all anymore! One negative thing that I have paid attention to lately. Do you think the editors have something against kissing? Or have ever they started using summer trainees or such? always when VinCat is kissing they show like a second and cut to other people for a while and then show the last second of the kiss again. That happens sometimes in other scenes too. It started in season 3 and it feels kind of jumpy. Hated that also on wedding wows when they cut from V to JT in the middle for no reason whatsoever. Otherwise only new positive things noticed in the episode.
|
|
|
Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 28, 2016 17:20:33 GMT -5
Didn't Evan also talk about cats mum dying ten years back? Wasn't it supposed to be ten years already on s1? Also now after watching four times you get loads and loads of nuances not noticeable on the first watch. For example Vincent's memory being better or worse depending on his condition in the real world. It was a nice touch and also some dialogue they used from before. Some of which V could not have knows but a nice nod anyway. Also they explained why Vanessa left Reynolds (don't think that was discussed before?). I don't know. So many new things that I can't remember all anymore! One negative thing that I have paid attention to lately. Do you think the editors have something against kissing? Or have ever they started using summer trainees or such? always when VinCat is kissing they show like a second and cut to other people for a while and then show the last second of the kiss again. That happens sometimes in other scenes too. It started in season 3 and it feels kind of jumpy. Hated that also on wedding wows when they cut from V to JT in the middle for no reason whatsoever. Otherwise only new positive things noticed in the episode. Yes, there's so much packed into this one episode, I see/hear something new each time that didn't sink in before. Evan did say her mum died 10 years ago, but at the start of the pilot, it was 9 years ago. So based on Evan's reference, 10 years ago could be around the end of S1 or start of S2 in terms of the time line for the dream world. JT's reference of 12 years in hiding doesn't quite match. Since 9/11 happened in 2001 and with boot camp needed, V probably went away to war in 2002. Unless he had a super short tour of duty, 2003 would be about the earliest he would have come back, which then matches the 9 years later for the pilot ep. Twelve years in hiding, would then mean around 2015. Vincent's reference of Cat investigating their original S1 hideout around 4 years ago, lines up with four years since the pilot, i.e. 2016. It's also interesting that Vincent says Cat's birthday is Sept 4th. Not that the episode time lines have to coordinate with the actual CW air dates, but in S1 it seemed liked they were to trying to keep a loose alignment between the two. Saturn Returns aired on Nov 8th, so I always thought Cat's BD was around that date. I believe 405 was the first time we've ever heard her actual birth date mentioned. On your negatives, I have noticed that in several episodes. It is quite annoying, not sure what's up with that. In this one, I totally agree that they should have lingered longer on the VinCat kiss before switching to shots of Tess or JT.
|
|
|
Post by jefferen on Jun 28, 2016 21:36:33 GMT -5
Another thing I wanted to add was, when Cat was touching and caressing Vincent's face in present time and saying how much she loved him, it reminded me a lot of 1x03 when Cat touches Vincent's face when he's beasting out bc he can't figuring a way out, and she just goes over to him and places her hands on his face and soothes him. Loved it
|
|
|
Post by bbatb on Jun 29, 2016 0:25:12 GMT -5
Didn't Evan also talk about cats mum dying ten years back? Wasn't it supposed to be ten years already on s1? Also now after watching four times you get loads and loads of nuances not noticeable on the first watch. For example Vincent's memory being better or worse depending on his condition in the real world. It was a nice touch and also some dialogue they used from before. Some of which V could not have knows but a nice nod anyway. Also they explained why Vanessa left Reynolds (don't think that was discussed before?).I don't know. So many new things that I can't remember all anymore! One negative thing that I have paid attention to lately. Do you think the editors have something against kissing? Or have ever they started using summer trainees or such? always when VinCat is kissing they show like a second and cut to other people for a while and then show the last second of the kiss again. That happens sometimes in other scenes too. It started in season 3 and it feels kind of jumpy. Hated that also on wedding wows when they cut from V to JT in the middle for no reason whatsoever. Otherwise only new positive things noticed in the episode. That line about Vanessa's reason for leaving Bob is IMO wrong! Vanessa left Bob before Catherine was born, but she went on working for M. for the next 20 years until she was killed. SHE was in Afganistan injecting and weaponizing these young men into super soldiers, SHE headed the program on the scientific side, making notes and adjustments as needed. We are told that she opposed the killing of the 'test subjects', but in the end they were (almost) all eliminated and she went home and did not look back. This penchant of the show runner/writers/whoever of sanctifying both Vanessa and later Bob bothers me a lot, because they both did a lot of damage (to say it mildly - Bob was a cold-blooded murderer) and the excuse that the end justifies the means does not always apply.
|
|
|
Post by sweetrosie29 on Jun 29, 2016 0:38:11 GMT -5
I loved this episode so many feel goood momemts that have already been mentioned. Seeing Vincent on the fire escape looking in poor baby reminded me of when he saw Cat and Evan leave fir the art gallery and his eyes glowed with jealousy. Loved to when Cat held his hand in the hospital and said to him that she thought she lost him just like Vincent did when he snuck into the hospital after Cat got shot i do wish they would have had him say to her what she said to him which was ' Never'.
Jays acting was out if this world I really hope we see him back on our screens soon.
|
|
|
Post by BeastieBoy on Jun 29, 2016 1:07:56 GMT -5
Didn't Evan also talk about cats mum dying ten years back? Wasn't it supposed to be ten years already on s1? Also now after watching four times you get loads and loads of nuances not noticeable on the first watch. For example Vincent's memory being better or worse depending on his condition in the real world. It was a nice touch and also some dialogue they used from before. Some of which V could not have knows but a nice nod anyway. Also they explained why Vanessa left Reynolds (don't think that was discussed before?).I don't know. So many new things that I can't remember all anymore! One negative thing that I have paid attention to lately. Do you think the editors have something against kissing? Or have ever they started using summer trainees or such? always when VinCat is kissing they show like a second and cut to other people for a while and then show the last second of the kiss again. That happens sometimes in other scenes too. It started in season 3 and it feels kind of jumpy. Hated that also on wedding wows when they cut from V to JT in the middle for no reason whatsoever. Otherwise only new positive things noticed in the episode. That line about Vanessa's reason for leaving Bob is IMO wrong! Vanessa left Bob before Catherine was born, but she went on working for M. for the next 20 years until she was killed. SHE was in Afganistan injecting and weaponizing these young men into super soldiers, SHE headed the program on the scientific side, making notes and adjustments as needed. We are told that she opposed the killing of the 'test subjects', but in the end they were (almost) all eliminated and she went home and did not look back. This penchant of the show runner/writers/whoever of sanctifying both Vanessa and later Bob bothers me a lot, because they both did a lot of damage (to say it mildly - Bob was a cold-blooded murderer) and the excuse that the end justifies the means does not always apply. What you say is correct. However, it doesn't necessarily negate what Vincent explained as the reason for their split. If Bob was the one that originally took Vanessa's earliest work and started to weaponize it when they were both very young, it could have led to Vanessa dumping him before Cat was born. Regardless of the reason they split, why Vanessa was working with Muirfield for so long has always been questionable. S1 made it seem like she felt her research might do some good in creating super soldiers that could end the war quicker. Or at least that was my take on it. Who knows, much about that part of Cat's family history has been somewhat murky to me. As a side note, I never understood why Vanessa's grave was moved in S1's "Anniversary", that's another mystery that I don't think has ever been answered either.
|
|
|
Post by runner12batb on Jun 29, 2016 3:54:49 GMT -5
Another thing I wanted to add was, when Cat was touching and caressing Vincent's face in present time and saying how much she loved him, it reminded me a lot of 1x03 when Cat touches Vincent's face when he's beasting out bc he can't figuring a way out, and she just goes over to him and places her hands on his face and soothes him. Loved it Yes, I loved it too. She made him feel loved in the way she touched him and soothes him...
|
|
|
Post by bbatb on Jun 29, 2016 11:32:06 GMT -5
Regarding Catherine's family history, you are so right BeastieBoy: it is more than murky. LOL As far as moving Vanessa's body to the farm, I have my own theory: I think Bob Reynolds did that. The farm was an FBI safe house and he had the means to do it. He 'courted' Vanessa, so he must have known about her preference of flowers. I cannot believe that he would have sanctioned her murder and the murder of their daughter by Muirfield had he known it. So, he at least made sure she rested in peace and he kept tabs on his daughter's life from afar. I don't know who else could have done it. Muirfield did not care and unless he is an accomplished lier, Thomas Chandler did not even know that her body was no longer in her original grave. So who?
|
|
|
Post by joyabeast on Jun 29, 2016 22:13:09 GMT -5
After rewatching the episode I realised there were somethings I really loved like-V talking to himself about it is not real, he really not meaning about Cat being better off without him.When V was saying he is dead about Evan he did seem like a creepy guy.I liked that this time vincent didn't want to hurt Reynolds.
|
|
|
Post by zelly309 on Jun 29, 2016 22:58:29 GMT -5
Regarding Catherine's family history, you are so right BeastieBoy : it is more than murky. LOL As far as moving Vanessa's body to the farm, I have my own theory: I think Bob Reynolds did that. The farm was an FBI safe house and he had the means to do it. He 'courted' Vanessa, so he must have known about her preference of flowers. I cannot believe that he would have sanctioned her murder and the murder of their daughter by Muirfield had he known it. So, he at least made sure she rested in peace and he kept tabs on his daughter's life from afar. I don't know who else could have done it. Muirfield did not care and unless he is an accomplished lier, Thomas Chandler did not even know that her body was no longer in her original grave. So who? That is a great theory bbatb It's very frustrating how some things aren't fully explained. I'm one of those annoying people who like things to be neatly packaged and complete and at the end of a movie or show, if it's not fully explained, asks "so, what happened after that?" I wanna know, yanno?? Anyway, I'm loving s4 so far but I do have this niggling question at the back of my mind - have the writers conveniently forgotten that Vincent was meant to live for a couple hundred years at the end of s3 and Cat was freaked out about it? Are they hoping once again that the audience has forgotten that too ? Or are they planning to bring it back in this season? Personally I hope they don't but it nevertheless annoys me that we have to just ignore that whole idea and carry on, if that's the case. Again, personally I'd really like to forget the majority of s3 and pretend that s4 is s3. That would have been so much better.
|
|
|
Post by bbatb on Jun 30, 2016 1:45:09 GMT -5
zelly309 don't get your hopes up about the longivity thing EVER coming up again. THAT was used as a tool to explain Liam to us. Maybe beause Liam was a natural beast, he was able to live that long and because Vincent is an 'engineered' beast he does not. That is the explanation I am going with and I can live with that .
|
|
|
Post by bbatb on Jun 30, 2016 1:58:11 GMT -5
Back to the episode:
I think they did a nice parallel during the roof top scene between Catherine and Vincent with the early episodes of S2. This time it is Catherine who does not remember and Vincent is desperately trying to convince her that they know each other. He becomes almost stalkerish and pushy until she uppercuts him and runs away. In 202 SHE was the one being pushy and stalkerish and HE pushed her to the ground and then ran away.
Mind you, I still hate that they wrote it that way in 202 and there is a huge difference between a slip of a woman hitting a tall 'beast' with her tiny fist - even if it packs a punch - and a tall guy/beast pushing a petite woman (or actually any woman) to the ground.
But at least it showed Vincent what Catherine felt back then and how desperate SHE was to have him remember and just how devastated she was when the man she loved and trusted hit her.
|
|
|
Post by zelly309 on Jun 30, 2016 2:21:19 GMT -5
zelly309 don't get your hopes up about the longivity thing EVER coming up again. THAT was used as a tool to explain Liam to us. Maybe beause Liam was a natural beast, he was able to live that long and because Vincent is an 'engineered' beast he does not. That is the explanation I am going with and I can live with that . Oh, I don't want the longevity thing back at all. It's just stupid if they forget about it, another thing where the writers treat their audience like idiots. I like your theory on it , though - seems very plausible. Also like your comparison to 202 and agree with everything you pointed out. Maybe that's part of why Vincent dreamt it that way in his fugue state? His lingering guilt over the shove ? Who knows, hey?
|
|
|
Post by missingalias on Jun 30, 2016 3:27:41 GMT -5
zelly309 don't get your hopes up about the longivity thing EVER coming up again. THAT was used as a tool to explain Liam to us. Maybe beause Liam was a natural beast, he was able to live that long and because Vincent is an 'engineered' beast he does not. That is the explanation I am going with and I can live with that . Oh, I don't want the longevity thing back at all. It's just stupid if they forget about it, another thing where the writers treat their audience like idiots. I like your theory on it , though - seems very plausible. Also like your comparison to 202 and agree with everything you pointed out. Maybe that's part of why Vincent dreamt it that way in his fugue state? His lingering guilt over the shove ? Who knows, hey? I'm biased as I hate all the jewel things and all those storyline but I find it weird that being a beast would give you a life of 200 years. There aren't that many animal species on the world that live that long. So that doesn't fit the genetic engineering idea. But I don't like to overthink things.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2016 3:33:16 GMT -5
BATB is a sci-fi show... so not everything is linked to reality! chimeras exist in nature and in lab, but none of them look like our Vincent :-)
|
|