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Post by yfaruqi on Nov 13, 2013 10:44:20 GMT -5
This is a response to Nelly's post w/o quoting it. Nelly, I don't think it is about negativity. It is about fans who absolutely LOVE this show who are desperately worried about it. Patience is a virtue, yes, but with a show that is constantly on the "death list" I don't think the writers can afford to do things that constantly ask for our patience. They need to be doing everything they can to not only gain new viewers but keep the ones they have! Judging from the amount of complaints about this season (there will always be some, I know), I would say they've made some concern-worthy mistakes, especially with regard to Vincent's character. Maybe this is all going to work out (although how'd that work out after the Alex arc, huh?), but I'm not sure anymore. I don't need to see VinCat make-out scenes every ep (in fact, I LOVED Liar, Liar!), but to totally change the personality of one of the main characters was very risky. I don't feel the connection, and the connection is what this show was all about, no matter if it was a procedural or not. This is one of the few places we can say how we feel out loud to others who care, but we say it with the hope of all hopes that things will get better! I don't want to go back to season 1; I just want a season 2 that gives me something (and someone) worth fighting for. Hope that makes sense. Not complaining for the sake of complaining. Venting because we're hurting... My Feelings exactly, only reason I feel the need to complain is I love this show. I wasn't around for the Alex arc last season but my take on that was probably different than some of the others...in spite of what was going on you always knew that Cat would still love and protect Vincent even if he chose to be with Alex and she did protect them. Yes Vincent was being a jerk but the writers did make a save at the end with Vincent trying to do the right thing...after all he did turn Alex down in the towel scene and was hesitant at the cabin which can be equated to the fact he loved Cat not Alex anymore and felt guilty about leaving Alex. With regards to change I don't have a problem so much with Vincent since after all his memories have been wiped out and he isn't the same person he was although that does beg the question are we who we are just because of our memories or there is more to it. We know Vincent feels the connection with Cat despite not remembering her at first and he did save her at the expense of his mission. The question in my mind is did he do that just because it was Cat or he would have done the same thing if it was an innocent bystander because that would tell me how far removed he is from Vincent 1.0.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2013 11:12:26 GMT -5
Nelly, I enjoyed your "vent"ing post. (Good points and well articulated.) It's interesting there appears to be so much polarization happening from the fans on this forum. I suppose it's understandable since the shows direction was completely turned sideways for Season 2. However, I can see their (the folks that are disappointed) point since it no longer has the same "feel" as Season 1. I suppose I find myself somewhere in the middle of the polarization. I don't see a problem in changing the direction of the show, but the problems formed with the disjointedness of the writing and how the narrative has been changed/constructed. I find myself thinking (naively I suppose) I wish the producers would just make the damn show they wanted to make and ignore all the myriad comments from pundits and outsiders. Whether they're successful or not, at least they implemented their vision.
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chiefpam
Rookie Cop
Getting more hopeful after #TillDeath!
Posts: 29
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Post by chiefpam on Nov 13, 2013 13:12:48 GMT -5
I've been fangirling for a long time, and I'm used to TV shows screwing up the characters and breaking my heart So in one sense, I'm not surprised that I'm not happy Such is the fate of a TV viewer, and it's why I adore fanfic so much; TV producers can't totally screw that up. So I'm being patient, personally, and hoping for improvement. However, I am concerned about the show confusing the heck out of new viewers. I'm trying to get this girl in my office to watch the show, and yesterday morning it was like, "Did you watch?" she said no, she missed it and I said "Good, 'cause it was kind of a sucky episode." It's so crazily confused and stuffed full of extended plotlines: 1. Gabe & the "flatline" project (do NOT get me started, but it drives me nuts that that's what they spend the "previously on" montage on every week), 2. Vincent with new personality and powers, 3. Catherine's paternity, 4. all the other beasts & the list, 5. Cat wanting to get back with Vincent 6. Gabe having a thing for Cat (supposedly, undetectible to the naked eye) and now, 7. Tori having some weird effect on other beasts I'm pretty sure a new viewer would be totally confused and afraid that they'd not be interested enough to bother coming back to figure it out. I'm a Babylon 5 fan, so you know I'm not against extended plotlines, but they are tricky to do, and I don't think they're being well handled here, especially in 2x06.
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Post by yfaruqi on Nov 13, 2013 16:25:28 GMT -5
I'm a Babylon 5 fan, so you know I'm not against extended plotlines, but they are tricky to do, and I don't think they're being well handled here, especially in 2x06. It's nice to meet another Babylon 5 fan. I think the difference here is that creators of B5 had a vision (or at least they were able to create a coherent story line starting with the battle of lion) for the show spanning multiple seasons, same with Supernatural the first 5 seasons are one storyline. I'm not sure if that's the case here it seems like they are making it up as they go. That's not necessarily a bad thing just to me for all it's faults season 1 episodes were more in sync with each other than this season. The first few were pretty good so no need to panic at this point but hopefully the next few before the hiatus will be better..
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Nov 13, 2013 18:11:13 GMT -5
So many wonderful opinions.............constructive, negative and positive.............it's all good, IMO!!
Two things that others have brought up.......Tess...She did see Thomas' iPad with Agent Reynolds/Cat's Dad picture. Tess is a smart cookie, why wouldn't she "researched" about Reynolds or tell Cat about Thomas' iPad? Heck, Tess and Heather tried to scope out Vincent in Season 1! That is what I want to see, Tess getting some background on Reynolds all these years. Because why would Thomas be concerned if Reynolds was back in the country. I will assume that Cat told Tess that Reynolds knows about Muirfield and that he knows they killed Vanessa. Reynolds would absolutely KNOW MORE THAN HE IS LETTING ON! I would love to see Tess and JT look into Reynolds background and found connections to Vincent and more stuff on Vanessa and Thomas. I can't believe that Thomas was oblivious to all this, especially since Vanessa was killed and the threat could easily been toward Cat or Heather.
Another thing, I expect that this "FLATLINE" theory is going to be put into practice at some point. Gabe, is determined to use it,......not sure why he is so sure it will work except that it worked for him? However, like others have said, I think his beast side isn't dead. Tori, of course, will cause havoc..........honestly, I really don't want to spend the Winter Hiatus worrying about this chick. If we get a bunch of lovey-dovey stuff between Tori and Vincent, I will just explode. Trying to keep positive.
I want more Cat centric episodes........she needs answers and I want them to spend a little more time on this. I need some more JT.....why did he sacrifice so much for Vincent? I need Tess to be purposeful in all the stories. Gabe and Tess should be seen working together more......not Gabe gathering info and telling Tess what to do.
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Post by Vincent Keller on Nov 13, 2013 22:28:22 GMT -5
This rant was triggered by Katie's post and will be full of random thoughts. Thanks Katie, for finally making me write down all this. Do the vague "missions" and "list of beats" bore anyone else? I'm so tired of them talking about the list of beasts and these vague missions that Vincent HAS to do. He doesn't HAVE to do anything. I know, I know, he has issues and we should be worried. I can't wait til they get past the plot line (can it be called that??) of the beast list. If Vincent says missions again, i'm going to have Cat kick him in the face! Again. If this goes on all season... no I don't want to finish that thought. Why is Cat's bio-dad revelation so glossed over? She looks at a pic and bam! knows her father. Then the next ep BAM confrontation, coffee, explanation and all is well. WHUT. GIVE CATHERINE'S BACKSTORY THE ATTENTION IT DESERVES. I swear I'm going throw my computer on the ground if every single character keeps rallying around the beast/missions plot while bio dad is swept under the rug and JT isn't even in eps!!!!!!!! *takes deep calming breath<edited> That's like watching CSI and saying if there will be another homicide case in the next ep I'll stop watching the show. ^ That's not at all like watching CSI and complaining about homicide. This show purposely moved away from procedural storylines, so to imply that Vincent is going to "weekly hunt a beast" is procedural and not mythological. I should not be expected to watch Vincent hunt a beast every week and watch the entire cast rally around him doing so. I want more JT, I want more from Tess besides snarky pimping - I have no care at all if she likes Gabe for Cat - it doesn't bother me one bit. But she needs to do a lot more than her recycled x 100 conversations with Gabe about Cat and Cat about Vincent. Gabe is interesting. Cat is interesting - however - she took no time for herself when she said so much that she needed it. To me, THIS IS like season 1 Vincat, because no matter what happens, they are cuddling and chesse-smiling at the end of every episode. Of course Catherine's not going to stop loving Vincent even if he spirals and rips out Dan Scott's heart. BUT it is normal and expected and would be appropriately dramatic to give an emotional pause in the relationship and give a gravity to what happened. She doesn't have to be mad at him. She doesn't have to dump him or act better than him. But she doesn't have to cuddle/coddle him either. He can know she's not going to give up on him even if she's worried and there is some angst and realistic drama and heaviness to it. Vincat cuddles are NOT the cherry on top for me. You want a show to last - give heavy situations the gravity they deserve. So many things glossed over! ^ 10 episodes? I'd take ONE truly Catherine-centric backstory episode. Coffee date and now bio-dad and I are chums! 'Kay, let's all go help Vincent!...again. ^ Sadly it's the vagueness of the missions that bores me. They could do SO MUCH with it. But instead, we have redundant conversations. Gabe looks for this or that beast every week. Tess jokes with him. V calls bio dad and blah blah blah snore. WHAT MISSIONS? Okay, beasts. There's no depth for me whatsoever. I don't want V to stop missions to make out with Catherine. I want the actual missions to be deep and interesting and for Cat to stop having to bend over backwards for the stupid missions while Vincent expects her to wait for him to finish but keep her in the dark. ^ 1000% Amen. I love that Vincent is acting like a true beast. ^ If anything, I want them to STOP kissing just for the sake of kissing. Build the drama! I didn't quote the rest of your post because I agree with all your other points. Yay, discussion! This is one major reason we created the forum.
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Post by feezya on Nov 14, 2013 5:03:01 GMT -5
^ If anything, I want them to STOP kissing just for the sake of kissing. Build the drama! I didn't quote the rest of your post because I agree with all your other points. Yay, discussion! This is one major reason we created the forum. I think this is what causing the lack of "depth/chemistry" between Vincat that a lot seemed to notice. Cat wanted a break, but they are still kissing each other. I don't know, do couples on a break still kiss each other? someone mentioned about the kissing scenes are just a box to be ticked in each episode, and sadly i think it is true
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Post by dan on Nov 14, 2013 5:49:00 GMT -5
Agree with this! What happened to cat being independent and a person of her own? She can`t even have one episode of her me..me..time.
and again with this! Why everything Cat does is always about Vincent? Is she even still a cop anymore? What happened to their promise giving Cat a storyline apart from just Vincent?
Not enough focus on Cat...Missing JT, ..Tess and Gabe don`t have enough storyline All complaints lead to too much Vincent and his uninteresting mission If they don`t change the focus soon, more people like meself will lose interest!
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Post by Vincent Keller on Nov 14, 2013 21:04:47 GMT -5
I have to honestly say I was really liking the beginning of this season. When Vincent started to remember Catherine and he came to the fire escape and his voice was back to his normal voice and he said her name just the way he does ... then she said it's too hard and shut the window. I was like okay, this season is going to go somewhere. I could feel the gravity of what Vincat are going through both individually and together. It started to get weird for me when Vincent was like, yeah you're cool and all, but let me finish these missions first. And Cat was all, I need some time, no, jk, let's kiss. Wtf. Anyway, I just wanted to be clear that I was really excited but by ep 5, I was like hmm and I really just didn't like ep 6 at all. However, some shows have slight fall slumps and then ramp back up for the mid-season finale. I'm hoping for a great build up to that point.
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Post by vincentfan on Nov 15, 2013 2:55:07 GMT -5
Of course Catherine's not going to stop loving Vincent even if he spirals and rips out Dan Scott's heart. TOTALLY thought the same thing! AMEN!
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Post by Nelly on Nov 16, 2013 18:57:03 GMT -5
If they don`t change the focus soon, more people like meself will lose interest! Some people might loose interest but others are getting hooked up with the show. Just look at all the newbies on the forum.
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Nov 16, 2013 21:08:28 GMT -5
If they don`t change the focus soon, more people like meself will lose interest! Some people might loose interest but others are getting hooked up with the show. Just look at all the newbies on the forum. My sister watched 1 or 2 episodes of S01 & referred to it as "the guy with the scar". I put dibs on her BigScreen TV for the S02 opener & she watched it with me out of politeness. Her husband DVR-ed it for me so I could re-watch while I was visiting. I was visiting on the Remembrance Day weekend & did the same thing with 206! She's now watching it even when I'm not there & is actually interested in it. She also likes Reynolds, which surprised me!
She actually recognised Paul Johansson [Tori's dad] from other shows she'd watched, he mostly played villains. And, Canadians might remember him as "the good looking cowboy with the hat" in an old Lotto 6/49 Ad. My comment was "That was HIM??"! He was very good looking!!
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Post by wednesday on Nov 17, 2013 3:28:11 GMT -5
Some people might loose interest but others are getting hooked up with the show. Just look at all the newbies on the forum. My sister watched 1 or 2 episodes of S01 & referred to it as "the guy with the scar". I put dibs on her BigScreen TV for the S02 opener & she watched it with me out of politeness. Her husband DVR-ed it for me so I could re-watch while I was visiting. I was visiting on the Remembrance Day weekend & did the same thing with 206! She's now watching it even when I'm not there & is actually interested in it. She also likes Reynolds, which surprised me!
She actually recognised Paul Johansson [Tori's dad] from other shows she'd watched, he mostly played villains. And, Canadians might remember him as "the good looking cowboy with the hat" in an old Lotto 6/49 Ad. My comment was "That was HIM??"! He was very good looking!!
I remember Paul when he played John Sears on the original Beverly Hills 90210! He was obsessed with Kelly Taylor!
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Post by Nelly on Nov 17, 2013 5:08:06 GMT -5
Some people might loose interest but others are getting hooked up with the show. Just look at all the newbies on the forum. My sister watched 1 or 2 episodes of S01 & referred to it as "the guy with the scar". I put dibs on her BigScreen TV for the S02 opener & she watched it with me out of politeness. Her husband DVR-ed it for me so I could re-watch while I was visiting. I was visiting on the Remembrance Day weekend & did the same thing with 206! She's now watching it even when I'm not there & is actually interested in it. She also likes Reynolds, which surprised me!
You see? More people!
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