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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 7:38:42 GMT -5
I haven't yet caught up on all the posts in this thread, BUT the "Beasties Forever" Review of 212 has been posted. As usual, it's very well done. It is a long one as they "have a lot to cover". The easiest way is to put it on when you're cleaning, cooking or whatever doesn't really require concentration. If nothing else, please listen to the first 10 minutes when they read a post by "Liz".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUPhV44k5H0 I agree with every single word uttered by these two women!! Seriously EVERY SINGLE WORD!! ALL OF IT!! It's like they opened up my mind and read everything in there! And I just LOL'ed at the 'Although I'm glad Tori wore one!' Love their definition of 'EPIC' love! AND YES JAY RYAN IS OURS!!!!!
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 6, 2014 7:38:42 GMT -5
I disagree. First, as I said before, I consider Vincent & Tori as infidelity because it started as infidelity. Vincent kissed her while in a relationship with Catherine. He still had that relationship when he sided with Tori and decided to kill Reynolds, disregarding that that would kill that relationship. In every way, Vincent betrayed Catherine in favor to Tori. That's why it was infidelity. Catherine was by his side every step of the way. She fought for their love even when there was no hope left. He screwed up. She's out of love. Because he killed it, not her. Now, she's in denial. She's not betraying her heart because she truly believes she doesn't love him anymore. Vincent doesn't hear her heart speeding up when he's around anymore. That's the key. She shut her heart completely to him. Gabe is also just a tool for her anger. She sided with him in the peak of it because he was the only one that was there to her. Even Tess abandoned her because all she did was judge Catherine for still fighting for Vincent. As much as I dislike Gabe, he was the only one that extended his hand to Catherine in the time he needed the most. Now, she thinks she solved her problems. And Gabe is still there. She's going to him out of gratitude because that's the kind of person she is. She knows she'll never truly love him, but she also knows that no love will ever be like the one she had for Vincent. So why not reward Gabe for his kindness? Why not fill her life with a person that'll do everything for her when the person she loved the most never did anything for their love? It's just a practical choice, but her heart is close. Vincent took all she had there. There's no love in her heart anymore, not only for Vincent, but for anyone. Therefore, she's not being unfaithful to herself. She's just being numb. Was Catherine truly with him every step of the way? I dare to doubt that... If I remember correctly, Catherine was not really happy with the Vincent she got back. She was (and still is even) portraying every action of Vincent 2.0 on Vincent 1.0. Always comparing them with each other. She couldn't accept Vincent 2.0. She wanted him to change back to who he was before his memory was taken away from him. Even though he didn't even know who he was (he is only now starting to figure that out). He couldn't remember. Is that being with someone every step of the way? Anyway, I am by no means condoning Vincent's (re)actions here; when he was able to choose (ie when he had regained most of his memory back) he choose the path of selfdestruction. I'm just saying that Catherine made (and is making) her fair share of mistakes. Let's just hope they both learn from them... yes thank u! we have to realise that both of them have made mistakes and need to learn things, not just one but both of them!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 7:41:26 GMT -5
yes thank u! we have to realise that both of them have made mistakes and need to learn things, not just one but both of them! Exactly! They both have made mistakes. Vincent realised and admitted some of his mistakes in ep 2x12 and Catherine too in 2x11.
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Post by Windflwr on Feb 6, 2014 8:44:26 GMT -5
I haven't yet caught up on all the posts in this thread, BUT the "Beasties Forever" Review of 212 has been posted. As usual, it's very well done. It is a long one as they "have a lot to cover". The easiest way is to put it on when you're cleaning, cooking or whatever doesn't really require concentration. If nothing else, please listen to the first 10 minutes when they read a post by "Liz".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUPhV44k5H0 I love these gals and feel like they are my friends, but I do get the feeling they are trying really hard to find explanations for everything this season and stay positive. It's good for those who need encouragement, but I do wish they wouldn't spend so much time "lecturing" the beasties on their behavior. Just discuss the show. It's a free country and some beasties will behave and others will not. It's a fact of life. I support folks who want or feel the need to express their dissatisfaction over the show. If no one did that, TPTB would never know and would never consider making changes. I think they have actually made lots of changes based on fan reaction, so it does have an effect.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 10:30:22 GMT -5
Windflwr, I think no one has the right to tell people how they should feel and if they should like a thing or not. Unfortunately, some people took upon themselves the title of "truth holders" and they think they're better than the others. I don't know what they expect to achieve with this kind of behavior other than make people even more sad or angry, but the fact that they're liking this season while others don't intitle them to look down to people, apparently. I think it's just a false sense of superiority. As if lecturing people would grant S3...
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 6, 2014 11:37:40 GMT -5
I haven't yet caught up on all the posts in this thread, BUT the "Beasties Forever" Review of 212 has been posted. As usual, it's very well done. It is a long one as they "have a lot to cover". The easiest way is to put it on when you're cleaning, cooking or whatever doesn't really require concentration. If nothing else, please listen to the first 10 minutes when they read a post by "Liz".
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUPhV44k5H0 I love these gals and feel like they are my friends, but I do get the feeling they are trying really hard to find explanations for everything this season and stay positive. It's good for those who need encouragement, but I do wish they wouldn't spend so much time "lecturing" the beasties on their behavior. Just discuss the show. It's a free country and some beasties will behave and others will not. It's a fact of life. I support folks who want or feel the need to express their dissatisfaction over the show. If no one did that, TPTB would never know and would never consider making changes. I think they have actually made lots of changes based on fan reaction, so it does have an effect. I agree. I have watched several of their videos. I think they are funny and feed off of each other very well. I like how they share very thoughtful interpretations of the story and scenes. They give Beasties a lot of "food for thought". I know they LOVE Jay and claim him....lol!! I don't blame their fan-girling of him and of Austin but I too get tired of the lecturing......plus, what is with the word <term removed>?? A ' <term removed>' is such a derogatory word to call someone.......it is like the "C..." word! Why call other Beasties names if you disagree with them. I don't really follow all the TWITTER conversation and maybe there are people that are really rude and such.........but I haven't really read them. I look at the writers Twiitter and the BatB twitter, so that limits me, I guess. But have people really been mean to KK, JR and AB? I think the writers have more to answer for than any of the actors, including Amber. I am just tired of feeling like if you don't "like" something about the show, etc. you are constantly called out for it! If something isn't "working" for the fans, then I think THE WRITERS can put their "BIG GIRL/BOY PANTIES" on and take it. Seriously, it is a two way street in the TV world. If the fans aren't buying what you are selling there is NO SHOW..... PERIOD! The writers can love what they do, but if the story is boring, not relatable, whatever........the show won't survive. It has to be exciting for the fans, not just "controversial" but intriguing and engaging. They cannot expect to show dispair and heartache for episodes on end and think that the fans are going to stand up and cheer. Yes, find that story line that makes for good "water cooler" conversation, but you run a fine line if you decimate the characters. I do like how Karen said that Vincent has evolved and that they see Gabe as the reverse reflection of him........Bad to Good and Good to Bad. Makes sense but it is pretty predictable. I just wish that they would spend a little more time analyzing Catherine........at this point in the story, it has been so much about Vincent. I can understand it but the way they talk sometimes is that Catherine is just an object of affection of Vincent....his desire, his motivation, the person he wants..........but I want to know WHY?? What I want to know what is it about Catherine that makes him a Better Man or gives him purpose? Catherine has a story too........her Mother and Reynolds.......Muirfield........Rebecca Reynolds..........Thomas Chandler and his death.......what drives this woman day in and day out.........what is she really feeling about all the things she has been through. I feel like we got more out of her when she had to go through the Psych evaluation after she was shot then we have all season. This girl has suffered too..........but little has been given to how she copes. She "kickboxs"?? That's it? I just feel like last year, more was given to how Catherine is feeling and why she is acting the way she does. But this season she is just reacts to Vincent and whatever situation.........She says she wants to take time for herself but she is jumping into a relationship with Gabe? It is poor character development and frankly just a tit for tat to what Vincent has done.........Catherine's story this season has been lukewarm and I just feel disappointed. So.......I enjoy these two and their thoughts, it just becomes a Vincent Lovefest most of the time.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Feb 6, 2014 12:17:08 GMT -5
I don't see anything epic on this storyline. I don't see a special and profound love anymore. If Vincent's love was profound, his bestial side would love Catherine, too, and that obviously never happened. Mostly, I don't see why this storyline was even necessary, if we all know that it's useless. Vincent and Catherine will be together at the end, so why waste so much time breaking them apart and making them hateful people? I know the answer, but it's still a weak one. But, yes, Vincent loves Catherine. I agree. But this: "If Vincent's love was profound, his beastial side would love Catherine, too, and that obviously never happened." hits the MARK!! In season 1 this was TRUE............Vincent loved Catherine and not just his Human side but it was TRUE about his BEAST side. His Beast side was fully aware of Catherine and protected her and WE KNEW THAT HE WOULD NEVER HURT HER, even as a Beast! He loved Catherine so deeply that even his Beast could not destroy it. Then why in the last few episodes did his Beast side become so overwhelmed that there was not one glimpse of that love. Not in his eyes! If they had just shown that.....I would believe that VinCat love connection wasn't gone. But, IMO, it just wasn't there until Vincent decided to "break up" with Tori. If we are to believe that VinCat are this 'destined' love, then that connection is never broken........that connection is always expressed. Even when Cat shot Vincent, you could feel her torment, her anguish.........her love was there. When Vincent was at the embassy stealing the gem......or at the precinct during the hostage crisis,.......the scenes with Catherine were cold and emotionless from him. But with Catherine, you still felt her feelings for Vincent. I guess one would say that the writers achieved the depths that Vincent sunk to............how he hit rock bottom and that it had to get to that point for him to realize what he lost. Then they accomplished their goal........but along with that they destroyed something very special between Vincent and Catherine. Now, they are working hard to destroy Catherine's character. IMO, I ask what is left .........are the pieces worthwhile to pick up? Do these two have to be so broken that they have to pick each other back up? I thought we would see Vincent and Catherine torn apart but grow stronger separately...........maybe that hasn't happened yet. But until we do, we all may have to witness the fall of Catherine and her relationship with Gabe. Again, predictable. They are dragging these two through the mud and there is not enough water to rinse them clean again.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 12:28:36 GMT -5
Yes, Suzieq ❤️ Beastie, I agree with you! They took epic love and transform it in ordinary love. It's still love, but it's not attractive anymore. I truly feel like just watching that insipid couple of Mr and Mrs Smith. They love each other, but it's not fun or endearing to watch. It's just common.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 6, 2014 13:27:51 GMT -5
They are dragging these two through the mud and there is not enough water to rinse them clean again. i guess we have to wait and see, we may change our minds once the story develops further... we are meant to feel like there is little hope for them two now i believe but anyway all i can say at this stage (at least in terms of how i feel) lets wait and see
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 13:55:21 GMT -5
They are dragging these two through the mud and there is not enough water to rinse them clean again. i guess we have to wait and see, we may change our minds once the story develops further... we are meant to feel like there is little hope for them two now i believe but anyway all i can say at this stage (at least in terms of how i feel) lets wait and see The problem here, anapi -season3baby :), is that the more helpless the fandom gets, the more distant S3 gets, too. At this point, besides the ratings, I don't know why the network would ever consider having S3 if they know their audience doesn't trust the writers anymore. If you don't trust the writers, why would you come back next season to see more of what you don't want to see? I understand there's a lot of people liking this season, but there's also a lot that is not. Having the fandom so divided is just one more reason for disconsidering the show. Did I explain my thoughts right?
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 6, 2014 14:22:11 GMT -5
i guess we have to wait and see, we may change our minds once the story develops further... we are meant to feel like there is little hope for them two now i believe but anyway all i can say at this stage (at least in terms of how i feel) lets wait and see The problem here, anapi -season3baby :), is that the more helpless the fandom gets, the more distant S3 gets, too. At this point, besides the ratings, I don't know why the network would ever consider having S3 if they know their audience doesn't trust the writers anymore. If you don't trust the writers, why would you come back next season to see more of what you don't want to see? I understand there's a lot of people liking this season, but there's also a lot that is not. Having the fandom so divided is just one more reason for disconsidering the show. Did I explain my thoughts right? of course you explained your thoughts right and i understand the fandom is divided. now yes it would be grand if everyone was happy about the direction of the show but there is nothing i can personally do to make this happen. if u feel u could do something or there is something u want to suggest let me know...but i am not going to lose my sleep over this division. there is nothing i can do about the division other than personally try to understand both viewpoints and be respectful towards others. and there is nothing i can do about ratings either. so my point above where i said we will wait and see still stands - I am hopeful we will get vincat magic and that I willy feel that magic as a fan despite what has happened but I am not sure about it either. All I can do is wait and see. i have not written the show and i have not watched all the episodes either. i have my skepticism about elements of the show which i feel were unnecessary but I cannot condemn the show because firstly i have enjoyed the season and most importantly i have only seen half of it. me worrying about whether everyone likes it or whether the epicness of the love will be recovered or whether fans will leave the show does not make sense since it does not make a difference (my worrying does not make a difference i mean). so did I explain my thoughts right?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2014 14:53:40 GMT -5
The problem here, anapi -season3baby :), is that the more helpless the fandom gets, the more distant S3 gets, too. At this point, besides the ratings, I don't know why the network would ever consider having S3 if they know their audience doesn't trust the writers anymore. If you don't trust the writers, why would you come back next season to see more of what you don't want to see? I understand there's a lot of people liking this season, but there's also a lot that is not. Having the fandom so divided is just one more reason for disconsidering the show. Did I explain my thoughts right? of course you explained your thoughts right and i understand the fandom is divided. now yes it would be grand if everyone was happy about the direction of the show but there is nothing i can personally do to make this happen. if u feel u could do something or there is something u want to suggest let me know...but i am not going to lose my sleep over this division. there is nothing i can do about the division other than personally try to understand both viewpoints and be respectful towards others. and there is nothing i can do about ratings either. so my point above where i said we will wait and see still stands - I am hopeful we will get vincat magic and that I willy feel that magic as a fan despite what has happened but I am not sure about it either. All I can do is wait and see. i have not written the show and i have not watched all the episodes either. i have my skepticism about elements of the show which i feel were unnecessary but I cannot condemn the show because firstly i have enjoyed the season and most importantly i have only seen half of it. me worrying about whether everyone likes it or whether the epicness of the love will be recovered or whether fans will leave the show does not make sense since it does not make a difference (my worrying does not make a difference i mean). so did I explain my thoughts right? I know you're right to think like that. But I think it's too sad that the story itself is slowly killing the show's chances. And I'm really not criticizing the show or the story. What I'm saying is beyond that. I don't like it, true, but that's not my point. Wether we can argue if this season is good or not, the story is making the fandom more and more depressed at each passing episode. The show runners are aware that their audience is one step away of leaving the show. It really seems like a mouse trap. The show entered a downward spiral and I don't see a way out of it.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Feb 6, 2014 15:15:40 GMT -5
of course you explained your thoughts right and i understand the fandom is divided. now yes it would be grand if everyone was happy about the direction of the show but there is nothing i can personally do to make this happen. if u feel u could do something or there is something u want to suggest let me know...but i am not going to lose my sleep over this division. there is nothing i can do about the division other than personally try to understand both viewpoints and be respectful towards others. and there is nothing i can do about ratings either. so my point above where i said we will wait and see still stands - I am hopeful we will get vincat magic and that I willy feel that magic as a fan despite what has happened but I am not sure about it either. All I can do is wait and see. i have not written the show and i have not watched all the episodes either. i have my skepticism about elements of the show which i feel were unnecessary but I cannot condemn the show because firstly i have enjoyed the season and most importantly i have only seen half of it. me worrying about whether everyone likes it or whether the epicness of the love will be recovered or whether fans will leave the show does not make sense since it does not make a difference (my worrying does not make a difference i mean). so did I explain my thoughts right? I know you're right to think like that. But I think it's too sad that the story itself is slowly killing the show's chances. And I'm really not criticizing the show or the story. What I'm saying is beyond that. I don't like it, true, but that's not my point. Wether we can argue if this season is good or not, the story is making the fandom more and more depressed at each passing episode. The show runners are aware that their audience is one step away of leaving the show. It really seems like a mouse trap. The show entered a downward spiral and I don't see a way out of it. i don't know to me, episodes 11 and 12 offered a lot of hope and i think (despite the ridic catgabe or whatever the shipper name is situation) i think episode 13 will do that too...i am hopeful... i dont think people will be depressed for long, even those who currently really dislike the direction. but u know what, i have known to be wrong on many occasions (like when i thought episode 10 would be the beginning of something better and i was left with my mouth open) so... again we shall see.. lol, sorry for throwing this at u this is how I feel
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Feb 6, 2014 15:51:30 GMT -5
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Post by beastiegirl.happy.puppy on Feb 6, 2014 16:17:29 GMT -5
I know you're right to think like that. But I think it's too sad that the story itself is slowly killing the show's chances. And I'm really not criticizing the show or the story. What I'm saying is beyond that. I don't like it, true, but that's not my point. Wether we can argue if this season is good or not, the story is making the fandom more and more depressed at each passing episode. The show runners are aware that their audience is one step away of leaving the show. It really seems like a mouse trap. The show entered a downward spiral and I don't see a way out of it. I know people that didn't like S01 & stopped watching. They watched a couple of episodes [because I was there & to humour me] & have been watching [& liking] it ever since! I even get long distance phone calls, "did you watch BatB? Why did he/she, etc, etc" . Apparently 212 had good ratings. And it's strong in the International Market.
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