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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 9:00:30 GMT -5
I think that's the real reason that made Catherine accept Gabe. In the last VinCat's scene, she kept looking at him go away and only got out of it when Gabe called her attention. Pressing her once again, BTW. She's under the impression that Vincent does love Tori and she's not important to him anymore. Therefore, she has to shut her heart down to him and open it to the next "best thing" (in quotes because that's beyond questionable). She thinks they're both out of love for each other. Frankly, I think that, too.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 10:36:35 GMT -5
Well, that says nothing, TBH. It says they were having problems, but which couple doesn't have? VinCat had a lot of them. For this words, there's no way Cat could deduce Vincent wasn't Tori's boyfriend anymore (if he ever was, BTW, because to me it's clear that he wasn't). hehe, Just edited my post while you posted yours. I say the same. No way Cat could deduce V broke with Tori or "cut any relationship" with her, for that matter Haha, it wasn't even clear to me that they broke up. Vincent seemed to be taking everything back in his scenes with Tori after the "taking a break" one. I mean, and I don't know, don't you have to have an established relationship to break up anyway? All I figured out is that they were seen out in public, and sleeping together. Nothing more, nothing less. But later on, I already felt him taking back the "taking a break" conversation in every scene between them after that, especially the Tori dying one. It didn't really read for me that he chose Catherine, as much as he started to question the relationship with Tori. So I don't know how Catherine could know anything other than that there were problems on beast on she beast front. And as I watched him react to Tori's probable death, many many things were made unclear, who or what was he mourning? Did he have genuine feelings for her? Was he sad because he got her killed… it was all pretty unclear. Looked like the death of a loved one to me. And Catherine stood there an watched. All of this would have been a lot less weird if he and Tori were not sleeping together, but I digress. I mean if he had only been her mentor, as he mourned her probable death, the intimate scene would have been less confusing… but since he questioned their intimate relationship… I don't know…. shades of gray.
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Post by crazyforbatb_has season 3 on Feb 5, 2014 11:18:18 GMT -5
It pains me to say this, but this week I absolutely agree with about 80% of Lilith’sreview. I felt mostly the same, and it didn’t get better after rewatch. I almost couldn’t watch the awful ”relationship advice” scene a second time, I felt like crying afterwards. (Was that the writers idea of letting V suffer? –I think I suffered more. It made me feel like season 1 never happened ) It’s especially true what Lilith had to say about the bad writing, so many scenes feeling totally off and wrong; Gabe; and the handling of the Tori arc and the treatment of Tori. (although my idea of a much better story execution would have been only V as her mentor, big brother like, as feeling responsible for her). I couldn’t detect that much misogyny at the beginning of the season, but she is right about how the writers treated Catherine recently. And I always liked Tess, but the role she was made to play this season is insulting(to the character and the actress) I too agree about this season's characterisation of women. Perhaps that is how our new showrunner either horribly and erroneously perceives and believes women to be or being a man (well duh) he ia focused more on the developmenr of the male character i.e Vincent. Evidence of these two thoughts exists: All the females' actions and thoughts are focused on the main male leads. When trying to discover herself, Cat cannot do this without being in some relationship. Tess always has to refer to being in a relationship and needing a man in your life to find iut who you are. Tori ran after Vincent like a lost puppy and was conveniently killed of when she couldn't have him and her purpose was served. Although we still are not clear on what that was.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 11:57:34 GMT -5
Did Tori have a purpose at all that wasn't bring a new girlfriend to Vincent to the show? Until today I simply can't see it.
The skeleton - It was her father's and she didn't even know it existed. So, she wasn't necessary to bring it to the story. Bringing Vincent's dark side to the frontline with her power - It could easily be just a side effect of his brainwash. Again, she wasn't necessary. Providing "beast blood" to JT's serum - Zach could do that. Or even Vincent and Cat could save him from death. Once more, she wasn't necessary for it. Telling Vincent he belongs to Cat - Anyone here thinks he didn't already know that? Just one more thing we didn't need her for.
Still don't see her big importance to the show.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 12:25:20 GMT -5
Did Tori have a purpose at all that wasn't bring a new girlfriend to Vincent to the show? Until today I simply can't see it. The skeleton - It was her father's and she didn't even know it existed. So, she wasn't necessary to bring it to the story. Bringing Vincent's dark side to the frontline with her power - It could easily be just a side effect of his brainwash. Again, she wasn't necessary. Providing "beast blood" to JT's serum - Zach could do that. Or even Vincent and Cat could save him from death. Once more, she wasn't necessary for it. Telling Vincent he belongs to Cat - Anyone here thinks he didn't already know that? Just one more thing we didn't need her for. Still don't see her big importance to the show. I can't see it either. She served absolutely no purpose other than as a 7 episode antagonist and third wheel in a supposed love triangle For me she was a plot device, and an empty one at that. Absolutely no character depth with no other purpose. <snip>and antagonistic relationship to compete with VinCat and very poorly done at that. The writers are trying to say she died a hero when so clearly trying to help JT was one of only two seemingly selfless acts of the entire character arc. But even that was just to fit in and to win Vincent back. I feel that she was shallow and one dimensional, a she beast barbie doll and bed partner for Vincent. That is it. I know some people feel sorry for her, but what kind of 20 something year old women has no friends in the world? Her father put a tracking device on her, which means she was not locked in that apartment her entire life. It is not our fault that nobody ever liked her is it? That doesn't exactly make her character more amiable that she never had a friend… She played the victim <snip> Not an innocent by any stretch of the imagination. And what other possible purpose could she serve besides possibly returning pregnant with his child? It makes me physically ill to realize the creative team has done this to Beauty and the Beast. ETA: She also could have served the purpose to highlight the fact that a tiger never changes it's stripes. Once a man-boy who sleeps around, always a man-boy who sleeps around. Vincent certainly is not an innocent in all of this, and perhaps it is he who took advantage of her, simply taking what she was offering, as he did with Catherine, and Gabriella, and Alex before that… Leaving the woman he loves to have sex with another is nothing new, or was it the other way around? It's hard to say. If I had not seen season one with my own eyes, I would not have believed him capable of any humanity. He is indeed a beast through and through. They certainly proved their point on that front.
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Post by crazyforbatb_has season 3 on Feb 5, 2014 12:39:53 GMT -5
I think it was C Ashton who tweeted that we will see Tori in a different light and we know that she lives in a world of fluffy clouds with rainbows and unicorns - at least that is the impresssion I get from her interpretations of things (V/T brother/sister to name one). Not dissing her, because she is kind to us beasties. Anyway T's motives in saving JT make her an accidental hero but this doesn't make me see her in a better light. She was still selfish and self-motivated in her actions. Also please let her be "dead, not just as in on paper dead, but I mean dead, dead" to (mis)quote JT''s words. Cause if she comes back pregnant I will need more than a Tums to keep my food down.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 12:48:13 GMT -5
I think it was C Ashton who tweeted that we will see Tori in a different light and we know that she lives in a world of fluffy clouds with rainbows and unicorns - at least that is the impresssion I get from her interpretations of things (V/T brother/sister to name one). Not dissing her, because she is kind to us beasties. Anyway T's motives in saving JT make her an accidental hero but this doesn't make me see her in a better light. She was still selfish and self-motivated in her actions. Also please let her be "dead, not just as in on paper dead, but I mean dead, dead" to (mis)quote JT''s words. Cause if she comes back pregnant I will need more than a Tums to keep my food down. I know they wanted us to see her as a hero during her final act, but one good deed does not change how poorly her character was written and executed and how shallow and selfish she was throughout her arc. An antagonist is an antagonist until the bitter end in my book. It didn't help that we had to watch a relationship melodrama play out before our eyes with all relationship scenes previously edited out. This made her seem extra ridiculous and whiny and childish in the end. One has to have a claim to begin with to stake it over the other person, and in my mind, to my knowledge they were just having sex. Nothing else was ever brought to light.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 12:51:36 GMT -5
At this point, I think we don't need to worry about Tori coming back with beast-babies to torment us with the possibility of Vincent once again leaving Cat behind because he has better options. For this to happen, the show would need S3...
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Post by bbat on Feb 5, 2014 12:52:06 GMT -5
I too agree about this season's characterisation of women. Perhaps that is how our new showrunner either horribly and erroneously perceives and believes women to be or being a man (well duh) he ia focused more on the developmenr of the male character i.e Vincent. Evidence of these two thoughts exists: All the females' actions and thoughts are focused on the main male leads. When trying to discover herself, Cat cannot do this without being in some relationship. Tess always has to refer to being in a relationship and needing a man in your life to find iut who you are. Tori ran after Vincent like a lost puppy and was conveniently killed of when she couldn't have him and her purpose was served. Although we still are not clear on what that was. Yes, and what I can’t imagine is Kristin Kreuk being happy about how her character is being portrayed now. I think she originally liked the idea of self-discovery, but not the love triangles. It’s only speculation from my part, but it seems to me since she couldn’t change anything about it, she decided not to get involved in the storytelling this season, and just let them do their thing this time(she stated something similar in an interview) This was JR’s and KK's reaction to a question about love triangles in an interview at NYCC(starting at 1.37 min): thedailyquirk.com/2013/10/15/video-exclusive-interview-with-beauty-and-the-beast-stars-kristin-kreuk-and-jay-ryan/Back then I thought they were only joking about the CW. It's really interesting to rewatch these old interviews now, it makes you see some statements in a different light. Jay Ryan’s "no comment” remark indicates that he wasn’t too happy about it either and KK’s facial expression after "It is the CW” says it all!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2014 12:56:24 GMT -5
I think it was C Ashton who tweeted that we will see Tori in a different light and we know that she lives in a world of fluffy clouds with rainbows and unicorns - at least that is the impresssion I get from her interpretations of things (V/T brother/sister to name one). Not dissing her, because she is kind to us beasties. Anyway T's motives in saving JT make her an accidental hero but this doesn't make me see her in a better light. She was still selfish and self-motivated in her actions. Also please let her be "dead, not just as in on paper dead, but I mean dead, dead" to (mis)quote JT''s words. Cause if she comes back pregnant I will need more than a Tums to keep my food down. I know they wanted us to see her as a hero during her final act, but one good deed does not change how poorly her character was written and executed and how shallow and selfish she was throughout her arc. An antagonist is an antagonist until the bitter end in my book. It didn't help that we had to watch a relationship melodrama play out before our eyes with all relationship scenes previously edited out. This made her seem extra ridiculous and whiny and childish in the end. One has to have a claim to begin with to stake it over the other person, and in my mind, to my knowledge they were just having sex. Nothing else was ever brought to light. A good deed is only a legit one in the eyes of the audience if is devoid of selfish intent. She saved JT to have Vincent back. If Vincent hadn't broke up with her, she wouldn't leave her comfortable beast word to bother with a little human. She made very clear every step of the way that she looked down at the humans because she was a superior race. Therefore, there was nothing heroic in her actions. That's also why people is having a hard time believing Gabe. If he loves Cat, he's doing things to win her heart, not just because they're the right thing to do.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 12:59:05 GMT -5
I too agree about this season's characterisation of women. Perhaps that is how our new showrunner either horribly and erroneously perceives and believes women to be or being a man (well duh) he ia focused more on the developmenr of the male character i.e Vincent. Evidence of these two thoughts exists: All the females' actions and thoughts are focused on the main male leads. When trying to discover herself, Cat cannot do this without being in some relationship. Tess always has to refer to being in a relationship and needing a man in your life to find iut who you are. Tori ran after Vincent like a lost puppy and was conveniently killed of when she couldn't have him and her purpose was served. Although we still are not clear on what that was. Yes, and what I can’t imagine is Kristin Kreuk being happy about how her character is being portrayed now. I think she originally liked the idea of self-discovery, but not the love triangles. It’s only speculation from my part, but it seems to me since she couldn’t change anything about it, she decided not to get involved in the storytelling this season, and just let them do their thing this time(she stated something similar in an interview) This was JR’s and KK's reaction to a question about love triangles in an interview at NYCC(starting at 1.37 min): thedailyquirk.com/2013/10/15/video-exclusive-interview-with-beauty-and-the-beast-stars-kristin-kreuk-and-jay-ryan/Back then I thought they were only joking about the CW. It's really interesting to rewatch these old interviews now, it makes you see some statements in a different light. Jay Ryan’s "no comment” remark indicates that he wasn’t too happy about it either and KK’s facial expression after "It is the CW” says it all!! Yeah, I thought that was a bad sign at the time too. They do know beasties after all… We are/were in love with VinCat. But I could not have imagined they would take it this far back then. I thought a character would be introduced who was supposed to feel like a threat, and one of them would get jealous, angst would ensue, followed by that character getting rejected. Period. The story, if you think about it, up to this point doesn't even really make sense. I don't even feel like they are that invested in the characters anymore. And yes, KK, must be beside herself. I can only imagine. She loved Catherine of S1. I don't think she even likes the character she is playing anymore, or believes in the story… I feel her cringe every time one of these Catherine Gabe scenes crops up, which doesn't make it any more believable, I'm sorry to say. I know we are not supposed to believe Catherine loves Gabe, but cringing before kissing him? That is a bit much. But maybe I imagine it.
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 13:03:08 GMT -5
At this point, I think we don't need to worry about Tori coming back with beast-babies to torment us with the possibility of Vincent once again leaving Cat behind because he has better options. For this to happen, the show would need S3... I know, it is just the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that was in their S3 plan. I'm compiling evidence, of how insidious the plans really were… It is an unhealthy path, but I can't help but consider it given how much damage has already been done. I expected the worst with Tori and they went there. And this was where I always thought they were headed… the ambulance speeding off is indicative of that if you ask me, and unless we see an open casket with a DEAD Tori, all bets are off, they planned to go there.
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Post by crazyforbatb_has season 3 on Feb 5, 2014 13:05:19 GMT -5
I think you are right bbat. Something seems off with the portrayal of the characters by the actors. I do get that the show needed a more exciting or different direction and what actor would want the storyline to stay static and one dimensional. However, I can't see either of them being happy the way things have been written. Some of the stuff is cringeworthy to say the least. At times all the actors seem like they are wooden and just going through the motions of acting. Not a slight on them because they are amazing but rather a comment on the CW. To me the passion and chemistry and the fun the cast had last year with each other and their interactions with the fans was amazing and IT IS SO LACKING THIS SEASON. It is if something has been lost
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Post by bbat on Feb 5, 2014 13:24:21 GMT -5
Yes, and what I can’t imagine is Kristin Kreuk being happy about how her character is being portrayed now. I think she originally liked the idea of self-discovery, but not the love triangles. It’s only speculation from my part, but it seems to me since she couldn’t change anything about it, she decided not to get involved in the storytelling this season, and just let them do their thing this time(she stated something similar in an interview) This was JR’s and KK's reaction to a question about love triangles in an interview at NYCC(starting at 1.37 min): thedailyquirk.com/2013/10/15/video-exclusive-interview-with-beauty-and-the-beast-stars-kristin-kreuk-and-jay-ryan/Back then I thought they were only joking about the CW. It's really interesting to rewatch these old interviews now, it makes you see some statements in a different light. Jay Ryan’s "no comment” remark indicates that he wasn’t too happy about it either and KK’s facial expression after "It is the CW” says it all!! Yeah, I thought that was a bad sign at the time too. They do know beasties after all… We are/were in love with VinCat. But I could not have imagined they would take it this far back then. I thought a character would be introduced who was supposed to feel like a threat, and one of them would get jealous, angst would ensue, followed by that character getting rejected. Period. The story, if you think about it, up to this point doesn't even really make sense. I don't even feel like they are that invested in the characters anymore. And yes, KK, must be beside herself. I can only imagine. She loved Catherine of S1. I don't think she even likes the character she is playing anymore, or believes in the story… I feel her cringe every time one of these Catherine Gabe scenes crops up, which doesn't make it any more believable, I'm sorry to say. I know we are not supposed to believe Catherine loves Gabe, but cringing before kissing him? That is a bit much. But maybe I imagine it. Me neither. I expected a breakup of sorts to happen, and then "other options” to be introduced midseason, but NEVER either one of them getting involved in a sexual relationship. If done right, it could have been great story. I always thought the introduction of a she –beast to be a good idea, it could have given them so many options for interesting storytelling . How innocent I still was back then…. Hmm, I don’t know if KK is cringing at every Gabe scene(she likes Sendhil and I think she tries to make the best out of it by having fun), but surely I am!
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Feb 5, 2014 13:32:06 GMT -5
Yeah, I thought that was a bad sign at the time too. They do know beasties after all… We are/were in love with VinCat. But I could not have imagined they would take it this far back then. I thought a character would be introduced who was supposed to feel like a threat, and one of them would get jealous, angst would ensue, followed by that character getting rejected. Period. The story, if you think about it, up to this point doesn't even really make sense. I don't even feel like they are that invested in the characters anymore. And yes, KK, must be beside herself. I can only imagine. She loved Catherine of S1. I don't think she even likes the character she is playing anymore, or believes in the story… I feel her cringe every time one of these Catherine Gabe scenes crops up, which doesn't make it any more believable, I'm sorry to say. I know we are not supposed to believe Catherine loves Gabe, but cringing before kissing him? That is a bit much. But maybe I imagine it. Me neither. I expected a breakup of sorts to happen, and then "other options” to be introduced midseason, but NEVER either one of them getting involved in a sexual relationship. If done right, it could have been great story. I always thought the introduction of a she –beast to be a good idea, it could have given them so many options for interesting storytelling . How innocent I still was back then…. Hmm, I don’t know if KK is cringing at every Gabe scene(she likes Sendhil and I think she tries to make the best out of it by having fun), but surely I am! Maybe cringing is going a bit to far, she just doesn't look like she believes it herself. If the character doesn't believe in the scene or story… it is tough to sell to the audience.
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