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Post by ArwenFan on Jan 29, 2014 23:04:38 GMT -5
Yes, that was a normal reaction for Vincent to FEEL that way. But if all mankind ACTED on their feelings, we either would all be in jail by now and or there would be a bloody battle with very few survivors in this world. Vincent didn't fight the feeling. We can't let feelings rule our actions. But this is a Tv show , so I guess anything goes. It is just that it is killing the heart and soul of this show by destroying the epic love. I just think there could have been a better way for that plot to be handled then it was. Catherine's character is all over the place, she might have gone out of her way to protect Vincent, but her dialogue has issues and hypocrisy in them. I don't remember Catherine ever telling Vincent that she is in love with him. She has done things to protect him, stated that they belong together, but I see so much inconsistencies with her dialogue. BTW, I wasn't trying to attack you with my comments, so please try to relax. I was just stating my opinions like everyone else. No hard feelings. Just because I am not liking the characters this season, doesn't mean, I have lost interest in the show, because if that was the case, I wouldn't be wasting my time on these forums. I am still interested, but just very disappointed with the show this season. Don't worry, I'm not feeling attacked and if I were anymore relaxed I think I'd be in a coma. And trust me, I have not been in love with this season either.
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Post by eyeofthetiger on Jan 30, 2014 0:04:28 GMT -5
I don't believe V remembers his love for Cat either. It is like Vincent is a robot having images of memories flashes in his mind, (as if, someone planted the memories in his mind) and without the emotion attached to it and without the real memories to back it up. That is how it seems to me. Absolutely agree with the above statement. Its like you picked it out of my head... I think Vincent may have regained all his memories, but I dont think any of the emotions attached to them. I work with brain injured people and sometimes this happens where people may remember facts but forget emotions and vice versa.Catherine never professed her love to Vincent that I can remember. He confessed his love for her in season one. She stated to Vincent that they belonged together and that they were a couple, when she first found him in the beginning of season 2. I don't remember one episode where Catherine said to Vincent "I love you". Never really noticed that, but if its true, thats a very interesting point. Maybe if she said it more that might help bring out the better aspects of Vincent. Hey it broke the curse in the Disney movie, so who knows.
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Post by eyeofthetiger on Jan 30, 2014 0:26:15 GMT -5
For me, it just looks like they have changed the original script and are trying to tie up all the loose ends and deliver this nicely packaged present, complete with a pink bow and that totally freaks me out cause it screams, this is the end, no Season 3....oh man, water works , ol:'( I'm still excited about this episode and I'm going to live outside my over active mind for a while before I make myself sick with worry To be honest, based on all the bad decisions Brad Kern made in SEason 2, I wouldn't want a SEason 3. Can you imagine, if Season 3 was guaranteed how far Vincent and Tori's relationship would go in this season 2? They would have certainly shown them kissing (as in the pictures that were released last week that were cut from the episode). And who knows what else. And Catherine and Gabe might have been an item too.
o can you imagine what they would have in store for fans if there was a season 3? How far would they take it this time? They already crossed so many lines in Season 2, so they would most likely cross more lines if given a Season 3. +++++++ Im really sad that there may not be a S3, but if they do bring it back ( :worship:please) I hope they take what made both seasons so great. Now that we have a more public war hero maybe they can bring back some of the procedural elements and dwell less on so much of the past. Im not sure if I would want BK to handle the s3 if he plans on just changing the core appeal of the characters. This episode proved that the banter between the characters and the chemistry between then can be stronger than just a plot line. It was the interplay between the characters that made this great, I dont think most of us are obsessing over the necklace. Also, where are these pictures showing vincent and tori together? I would love to see them. I only remember the kiss during the thanksgiving episode. If someone could post a link
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Post by eyeofthetiger on Jan 30, 2014 0:30:39 GMT -5
Loved the sack of potatoes comment that people made. He did never carry Catherine like that... It was just funny to watch. Also, it was kinda a bummer that he didnt keep the necklace on Tori longer so that he could he Catherine's confession. Although, I think he might have heard it. His expression was too softened in the last few scenes to be just from Catherine shutting off the lights.
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Post by raniamahd on Jan 30, 2014 3:43:44 GMT -5
riv and ArwenFan first let me say it is normal to disagree with each other because every one see things from his perspective , and we are here to exchange our points of views because they are different , what is the point to talk and discuss if we all have the same opinion and see things in the same way ? i find it healthy and useful and i never get upset of any one who disagree with my opinion or take it personal at all , i don't join forums to be in band all the member sing the one and the same song !
so now as we settle the disagree issue let me talk about what i agree with you in your posts riv yes i guess the words (i love you ) could make a different in V's case if Cat said it to him , i don't know if the writers missed that ? because even if they both said it once in season1 and it is not their type to say it over and over every day but in that case when V didn't remember any thing about them , when he feel afraid and suspension on every one , yes those words saying with all the feeling could comfort and relax him and get him closer to Cat or the writers could did it on purpose to say that Cat doesn't get that this Vincent isn't the same one he was before and that he changed , so she deals with him like he is the same guy and no thing change , so in her perspective he knew for sure how much she loves him and it isn't their thing to repeat it always , so why saying it ?! but what ever the reason is i agree those simple words could make a huge different
ArwenFan i agree that the show makers should explain every thing on the screen not in twitter or in interviews ! after e10 people ask the writers in twitters this q ( if V got his full memory back how can he treat Cat like crap like he does ?) they gave excuses but non of them can convince me that he remember her , their love or ever remember his old self completely! because if he did he would never treat her like crap and more important he would not disagree with her in the way to deal with things ?! because the were in the same page morally , have so much in common on thinking and share a similar or near perspective but the thing is it seems like Mr. Kern though he deals with much smarter viewers than us he said they put enough scenes of flash memory on the screen and we (the viewers) suppose to get it that V got his full memory back ?! no need to say it clear or a big reveal moment ! the same when he changes every fact from season1 and expect us to understand and see things from his view just be hint ? no need for explanation or things to be more clear !
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Jan 30, 2014 3:49:42 GMT -5
Also if V has his memory back then how come he doesn't seem to remember that Gabe tried to kill him when he was in beast form from season 1 finale? (Gabe being the one in beast form) V remembers Gabe tried to killed him. He told Gabe so in this ep, at the boathouse... he also remembers that Tess shot him... his memories are back...
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jan 30, 2014 4:00:21 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 7:42:03 GMT -5
Loved the sack of potatoes comment that people made. He did never carry Catherine like that... It was just funny to watch. Also, it was kinda a bummer that he didnt keep the necklace on Tori longer so that he could he Catherine's confession. Although, I think he might have heard it. His expression was too softened in the last few scenes to be just from Catherine shutting off the lights. I really hope that he didn't hear Catherine "praying" to him, because I want the softening to be part of his journey back as a result of making good choices. Just wishful thinking on my part.
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nosleep3
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Post by nosleep3 on Jan 30, 2014 9:42:51 GMT -5
When Tori and Cat had their bitter exchange about dating Vincent, I didn't actually get the sense that Tori meant any of it. Not the primal connection stuff, at any rate. She and Catherine have been antagonizing each other for several episodes, and from Tori's perspective, Catherine seems to really hate the idea of Beasts. Cat won't even SAY the word Beast if she can help it, and Tori has picked up on that bitterness. So when given the opportunity, it seems only natural that Tori would make things up just to get under Catherine's skin, especially right after Catherine arrested her and dragged her into a police station, potentially exposing her.
Also: Catherine adding "attacking a police officer" to the list of charges was a bunch of bull, and I think it would have been dropped. She stomps into someone's private property in plain clothes in the dark without announcing herself as police and then gets pissy (and, once again, very quick to pull out her gun, with her jumpy little finger ON THE TRIGGER instead of resting BESIDE the trigger, like she's SUPPOSED TO) when Tori tries to defend herself. Vincent was right, it was a TOTAL abuse of power. But since this entire show is predicated on government entities great and small abusing their power every chance they get, I don't see why he's even surprised anymore.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2014 10:05:00 GMT -5
When Tori and Cat had their bitter exchange about dating Vincent, I didn't actually get the sense that Tori meant any of it. Not the primal connection stuff, at any rate. She and Catherine have been antagonizing each other for several episodes, and from Tori's perspective, Catherine seems to really hate the idea of Beasts. Cat won't even SAY the word Beast if she can help it, and Tori has picked up on that bitterness. So when given the opportunity, it seems only natural that Tori would make things up just to get under Catherine's skin, especially right after Catherine arrested her and dragged her into a police station, potentially exposing her. Also: Catherine adding "attacking a police officer" to the list of charges was a bunch of bull, and I think it would have been dropped. She stomps into someone's private property in plain clothes in the dark without announcing herself as police and then gets pissy (and, once again, very quick to pull out her gun, with her jumpy little finger ON THE TRIGGER instead of resting BESIDE the trigger, like she's SUPPOSED TO) when Tori tries to defend herself. Vincent was right, it was a TOTAL abuse of power. But since this entire show is predicated on government entities great and small abusing their power every chance they get, I don't see why he's even surprised anymore. I don't follow what you meant in the bold. Regarding Cat on the boathouse, she knew Tori was in possession of stolen property and she went there to try and have an amicable solution to it. I agree that she should announce her presence, but that was just the writers creating unnecessary drama again. Tori did attacked her and Cat knows she can't overpower her in mano a mano (they didn't know about the gem effect yet), thus her pulling the gun on her. It's obvious that Tori wouldn't bow to her authority as an officer of the law, therefore she had to be arrested.
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nosleep3
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Post by nosleep3 on Jan 30, 2014 11:00:08 GMT -5
When Tori and Cat had their bitter exchange about dating Vincent, I didn't actually get the sense that Tori meant any of it. Not the primal connection stuff, at any rate. She and Catherine have been antagonizing each other for several episodes, and from Tori's perspective, Catherine seems to really hate the idea of Beasts. Cat won't even SAY the word Beast if she can help it, and Tori has picked up on that bitterness. So when given the opportunity, it seems only natural that Tori would make things up just to get under Catherine's skin, especially right after Catherine arrested her and dragged her into a police station, potentially exposing her. Also: Catherine adding "attacking a police officer" to the list of charges was a bunch of bull, and I think it would have been dropped. She stomps into someone's private property in plain clothes in the dark without announcing herself as police and then gets pissy (and, once again, very quick to pull out her gun, with her jumpy little finger ON THE TRIGGER instead of resting BESIDE the trigger, like she's SUPPOSED TO) when Tori tries to defend herself. Vincent was right, it was a TOTAL abuse of power. But since this entire show is predicated on government entities great and small abusing their power every chance they get, I don't see why he's even surprised anymore. I don't follow what you meant in the bold. Regarding Cat on the boathouse, she knew Tori was in possession of stolen property and she went there to try and have an amicable solution to it. I agree that she should announce her presence, but that was just the writers creating unnecessary drama again. Tori did attacked her and Cat knows she can't overpower her in mano a mano (they didn't know about the gem effect yet), thus her pulling the gun on her. It's obvious that Tori wouldn't bow to her authority as an officer of the law, therefore she had to be arrested. What I mean is, when Tori, Catherine, and Tess were in the interrogation room, and Tori was saying things like "The connection Vincent and I have is primal," it didn't come across as true (in my opinion). It came across as Tori dredging up old hurts and making up spiteful, antagonistic lies that she knew would irritate Catherine and make her jealous. If Tori actually had a deeper relationship with Vincent, she wouldn't need to be petty and brag about it, because she would have already "won."
As far as the arrest goes, I can see your point. I still say Catherine didn't handle her weapon properly, though, but it's TV and this particular set of writers loves to make up stupid crap about police procedure, so I guess I should lower my expectations.
Still, it stuns me that Catherine, who spent the whole of last season trying to avoid any situation in which Vincent might be exposed, would suddenly forget that arresting a beast would necessarily risk exposure. It boggles the mind that she didn't think of this until the end of the episode, when formerly her entire LIFE revolved around preventing that very thing.
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Post by pippin on Jan 30, 2014 11:38:46 GMT -5
Still, it stuns me that Catherine, who spent the whole of last season trying to avoid any situation in which Vincent might be exposed, would suddenly forget that arresting a beast would necessarily risk exposure. It boggles the mind that she didn't think of this until the end of the episode, when formerly her entire LIFE revolved around preventing that very thing. They didn't forget that arresting a beast might risk exposure, that was what that whole little conversation with Dana in the beginning was about and why they didn't want to bring her in. And it was one of the reasons they gave to Tori and Vincent at the boathouse as to why they should just give them the necklace, and Tori was about to until Vincent with his one track mind stepped in between and said, "Uh, No." And like Catherine said, if they didn't return with the necklace, the FBI was going to come. That's why Catherine was "congratulating" Vincent for recklessly and stupidly parading Tori around as bait when she said, "You wanted to lure bad guys with your splashy photos. Well congratulations, you also lured the FBI." Even after they had to arrest her, Catherine was still trying to help and protect both Tori and Vincent by coming up with a cover story as to how they got the gem so that they wouldn't be implicated.
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Post by Sayuri_happy_4_s3 on Jan 30, 2014 12:10:48 GMT -5
What I mean is, when Tori, Catherine, and Tess were in the interrogation room, and Tori was saying things like "The connection Vincent and I have is primal," it didn't come across as true (in my opinion). It came across as Tori dredging up old hurts and making up spiteful, antagonistic lies that she knew would irritate Catherine and make her jealous. If Tori actually had a deeper relationship with Vincent, she wouldn't need to be petty and brag about it, because she would have already "won."
(First of all, sorry for messing it up with quoting... still figuring out how to do it!)
For me, that became clear when they were both in the cell, and now I would like to explain my own theory (didn't find the right place yet!!! ):
- Episode 2.10: the famous kissing scene between V and T happens at the boat house right after he is pissed after "The talk", he is trying to convince her that he is in because... well, because of whatever. Then they go to see JT and track the bad guys to the bar. V sees Catherine kissing Patrick and makes a face. Tori sees the face and gets jealous. She leaves the bar and V goes after her and then they have a conversation at a dark alley THAT WAS ALSO ELIMINATED BUT WE COULD SEE IT AT THE PROMO AND HE KIND OF REFERS TO LATER ON WHEN TALKING TO JT where he says (making this up, of course) that he has this pull to Catherine that has no explanation, as he already stated to Catherine in 202 when he kidnapped her. Tori gets mad and leaves (that is the part we could see at the promo, not at the actual show). We don't see her again during that episode, but she has realized that her "primal connection with Vincent" will actually never happen... the real connection is with Catherine.
- Episode 2.11: at the cell, Catherine acknowledges that she was jealous because of that connection that they share and she will never have... and she was being honest, not that she is trying to piss her off... But she does!! Tori says: "Shut up!!" because she knows that there is not any special connection. Then Catherine thinks that that is making her turn into a beast and says: "Vincent and you don't have a chance", which pisses her off even more because she knows it is true...
What do you think?
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nosleep3
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Post by nosleep3 on Jan 30, 2014 12:36:08 GMT -5
Still, it stuns me that Catherine, who spent the whole of last season trying to avoid any situation in which Vincent might be exposed, would suddenly forget that arresting a beast would necessarily risk exposure. It boggles the mind that she didn't think of this until the end of the episode, when formerly her entire LIFE revolved around preventing that very thing. They didn't forget that arresting a beast might risk exposure, that was what that whole little conversation with Dana in the beginning was about and why they didn't want to bring her in. And it was one of the reasons they gave to Tori and Vincent at the boathouse as to why they should just give them the necklace, and Tori was about to until Vincent with his one track mind stepped in between and said, "Uh, No." And like Catherine said, if they didn't return with the necklace, the FBI was going to come. That's why Catherine was "congratulating" Vincent for recklessly and stupidly parading Tori around as bait when she said, "You wanted to lure bad guys with your splashy photos. Well congratulations, you also lured the FBI." Even after they had to arrest her, Catherine was still trying to help and protect both Tori and Vincent by coming up with a cover story as to how they got the gem so that they wouldn't be implicated. Okay, I see your point. But Catherine and Vincent's escalating argument was pointless bickering; they just kept trying to one-up each other until Catherine pulled her credentials and made the arrest to win the argument and get her way. It was nice of Catherine to try to think of a cover story for Tori's possession of the gem. But that doesn't change the fact that Cat brought a Beast with crappy self-control into the middle of the precinct, and after all the time she spent trying to help Vincent avoid that exact situation, she should have known better. That's what I meant about risking exposure.
I'm kind of starting to wish someone on this whole show would start to give two craps about Tori beyond superficial concern. Between Vincent not caring about risking Tori's safety and Cat not caring about risking exposing Tori's secret, I feel sorry for the girl. It's no wonder she acts like a brat every time she interacts with these people.
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nosleep3
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Post by nosleep3 on Jan 30, 2014 12:37:42 GMT -5
What I mean is, when Tori, Catherine, and Tess were in the interrogation room, and Tori was saying things like "The connection Vincent and I have is primal," it didn't come across as true (in my opinion). It came across as Tori dredging up old hurts and making up spiteful, antagonistic lies that she knew would irritate Catherine and make her jealous. If Tori actually had a deeper relationship with Vincent, she wouldn't need to be petty and brag about it, because she would have already "won."
(First of all, sorry for messing it up with quoting... still figuring out how to do it!)
For me, that became clear when they were both in the cell, and now I would like to explain my own theory (didn't find the right place yet!!! ):
- Episode 2.10: the famous kissing scene between V and T happens at the boat house right after he is pissed after "The talk", he is trying to convince her that he is in because... well, because of whatever. Then they go to see JT and track the bad guys to the bar. V sees Catherine kissing Patrick and makes a face. Tori sees the face and gets jealous. She leaves the bar and V goes after her and then they have a conversation at a dark alley THAT WAS ALSO ELIMINATED BUT WE COULD SEE IT AT THE PROMO AND HE KIND OF REFERS TO LATER ON WHEN TALKING TO JT where he says (making this up, of course) that he has this pull to Catherine that has no explanation, as he already stated to Catherine in 202 when he kidnapped her. Tori gets mad and leaves (that is the part we could see at the promo, not at the actual show). We don't see her again during that episode, but she has realized that her "primal connection with Vincent" will actually never happen... the real connection is with Catherine.
- Episode 2.11: at the cell, Catherine acknowledges that she was jealous because of that connection that they share and she will never have... and she was being honest, not that she is trying to piss her off... But she does!! Tori says: "Shut up!!" because she knows that there is not any special connection. Then Catherine thinks that that is making her turn into a beast and says: "Vincent and you don't have a chance", which pisses her off even more because she knows it is true...
What do you think? I LOVE that theory! It fits very well with what we've seen on screen up to this point.
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