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Post by Nelly on Oct 23, 2013 14:49:14 GMT -5
That would take much of the drama out of the show, would it not? This comment will get me in trouble I'm sure, but I don't think they should hook up Cat and Vincent again. The build up in a romance is always more compelling than the payoff. That is a dynamic that's been understood by TV producers for years. Generally, ratings usually head south when they decide to connect two characters that have had a long build up. Every episode with Cat/Vin in bed? Boring! I will be in trouble too because I agree with you. I can enjoy a true love story when watching a movie. As for a tv show I lose interest in no time.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 23, 2013 14:58:58 GMT -5
That would take much of the drama out of the show, would it not? This comment will get me in trouble I'm sure, but I don't think they should hook up Cat and Vincent again. The build up in a romance is always more compelling than the payoff. That is a dynamic that's been understood by TV producers for years. Generally, ratings usually head south when they decide to connect two characters that have had a long build up. Every episode with Cat/Vin in bed? Boring! I will be in trouble too because I agree with you. I can enjoy a true love story when watching a movie. As for a tv show I lose interest in no time. LOL don't think it will be boring this time, because I think everytime they get together they will be forced apart, so won't be an easy ride even if they do temporarily get together regarding ratings, well i would hope we don't fall lower than the 0.3 we are currently getting!!
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Oct 23, 2013 15:54:02 GMT -5
That would take much of the drama out of the show, would it not? This comment will get me in trouble I'm sure, but I don't think they should hook up Cat and Vincent again. The build up in a romance is always more compelling than the payoff. That is a dynamic that's been understood by TV producers for years. Generally, ratings usually head south when they decide to connect two characters that have had a long build up. Every episode with Cat/Vin in bed? Boring! hahaa! are you so scared of us??!! I understand your point... it's true that most of the tvshows keep the build up romance for indefinite seasons and don't connect the characters until the end. However, I can recall several successful tvshows where the main couple got together and stick together (with a lot of ups and downs) for many seasons! Alias is a good example of it. I agree it would be boring with VinCat every episode in bed, and I expect them to pass a lot of trials and angst but there's a difference between that and having them apart with third persons in the middle, doubting about each other's love, etc... I don't like that kind of love (very frequent lately) and I know there are many like me out there! I think that's one of the things why its so appealing for many of us ... and probably why its ratings are no so high as we wish... not so many people enjoy a true and deep love story... Alias!! <3 Syndey and Vaughn!!!! All time favorite show and couple before Vincat... now it's a toss up.
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Post by kiki09 on Oct 23, 2013 16:01:57 GMT -5
One of the things that bother me in this season start is that I'm not seeing a strong woman on Cat. Yes, as a lot of people here, I liked when she closed the window on Vincent, but I still think it wasn't for the right reasons. Of course, him lying to her without a second thought was something that needed punishment, but the writers put it as the single reason for her shutting him down, when I think there's things much more important than that. And, in the end, she did admit that everything she did was to have V back and that she kept trying to hide from herself and the others the gravity of what he had done, even though he HIT HER. How is condoning with abusive behavior being strong? The writers acknowledged that they were making Cat look like a vengeful <edited> when they put V saying it. They put sexism on the screen ON PURPOSE and no one seemed to care about. It's just a side note, but I do think that this is just wrong. To me, the biggest problem with this new plotline is that they transformed V in a cold hearted assassin hired to eliminate his own kind, which makes him also a betrayer. People might argue that he's after rogue violent beasts, but that doesn't change the fact that those beasts are going through the same things he went. Maybe even worse. Perhaps they're violent because they didn't have a JT to protect and understand them as V had. Vincent sold his soul to his creators, the very people that destroyed his life in first place and Cat simply doesn't say a word about that. To her, his only problem isn't remembering her. But I keep thinking what would be like if we get a 3rd season. Is it really necessary to have VinCat falling in love again? That means that every season they'll have to start everything again? It doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not convinced so far. Taking Muirfield out of the picture was also something that doesn't make sense. Muirfield was the great villain of the show. It was the reason for all the secrets and danger. Why is Vincent still in hiding if there's no one trying to kill him anymore? Why he can't meet Cat's family or going to her job's parties? WHY TAKE AWAY THE REASON FOR THE SHOW'S PLOT? The producers justified with this bull<edited> about male audience, but I read a lot of beasties saying that they watched the show with their husbands or boyfriends and they didn't like the change on V either. Men said that they could understand and be sympathetic with Beast 1.0 but that Beast 2.0 has no appeal. He's just another idiot taking orders without questions. What's the interest in that? I am legitimately confused by your post and would love it if you would explain certain points more. 1) Explain what you mean about the sexism and the 'condoning' of the shove, cause I really didn't see it that way. Cat told him off plenty of times plus, VK was willing to never be part of her life because recognized the gravity of what he did to her. 2) Also, when did he sell his soul? I think I have posted about this already but I feel like the effect of reprogramming is underestimated. To me it seems very important and the crux of 2.0. He isn't in control of what he is doing. They have reprogrammed his mind so whatever he is doing are the orders/instructions that have been given to him. Plus the only time we noticed that he questioned what his mission was, was when he confronted Condor about the list. He doesn't question what he is doing because of the programming. 3) I was thinking about the falling in love each season thing and I highly doubt they will take that route. In one of the SDCC interviews with the EPs, they mentioned that they (or Brad I guess) had a 5-season arc in mind and I would think that includes the romance as well. 4) Vincent really isn't hiding. He's running around the streets of NY all willy nilly. The most we could say he is 'hiding' is what his mission is and that I would chalk up to the programming he's undergone.
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 23, 2013 16:03:15 GMT -5
hahaa! are you so scared of us??!! I understand your point... it's true that most of the tvshows keep the build up romance for indefinite seasons and don't connect the characters until the end. However, I can recall several successful tvshows where the main couple got together and stick together (with a lot of ups and downs) for many seasons! Alias is a good example of it. I agree it would be boring with VinCat every episode in bed, and I expect them to pass a lot of trials and angst but there's a difference between that and having them apart with third persons in the middle, doubting about each other's love, etc... I don't like that kind of love (very frequent lately) and I know there are many like me out there! I think that's one of the things why its so appealing for many of us ... and probably why its ratings are no so high as we wish... not so many people enjoy a true and deep love story... Alias!! <3 Syndey and Vaughn!!!! All time favorite show and couple before Vincat... now it's a toss up. Ahh... Spydancer... I loved Sydney and Vaughn too!! They were sooo sweet, and he was so romantic... great chemistry between them too! and they even had "a thing" in real life for some time, before Ben Affleck came and wooed her But yeah... VinCat is Vincat... difficult to choose but I would pick VinCat... maybe because now it's on fire!
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chiefpam
Rookie Cop
Getting more hopeful after #TillDeath!
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Post by chiefpam on Oct 23, 2013 16:05:16 GMT -5
>>This comment will get me in trouble I'm sure, but I don't think they should hook up Cat and Vincent again. The build up in a romance is always more compelling than the payoff. That is a dynamic that's been understood by TV producers for years. Generally, ratings usually head south when they decide to connect two characters that have had a long build up.
Every episode with Cat/Vin in bed? Boring!<<
No episodes with Cat/Vin in bed? Pointless!!
I get they want the "unrequited sexual tension" thing, it can be delicious, but after a while it's just stupid. Granted, it is tricky to move from a "will they/won't they" to a "they're together" point, but it can be done (if the build-up is absurdly long that makes it harder). Established couples can still have a LOT of drama - and with B&tB's set-up this year there's a lot of potential for honest conflict - real disagreements between them on goals and methods and tactics, where they can disagree and still be together.
Anybody watch season 4 of Chuck? Chuck & Sarah were together, but still had relationship angst, conflicts, etc. It can be done. Anybody know how they're doing it on Castle? I'm not current on that show but I think Castle & Beckett have been together for a while...
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 23, 2013 16:11:51 GMT -5
>>This comment will get me in trouble I'm sure, but I don't think they should hook up Cat and Vincent again. The build up in a romance is always more compelling than the payoff. That is a dynamic that's been understood by TV producers for years. Generally, ratings usually head south when they decide to connect two characters that have had a long build up. Every episode with Cat/Vin in bed? Boring!<< No episodes with Cat/Vin in bed? Pointless!! I get they want the "unrequited sexual tension" thing, it can be delicious, but after a while it's just stupid. Granted, it is tricky to move from a "will they/won't they" to a "they're together" point, but it can be done (if the build-up is absurdly long that makes it harder). Established couples can still have a LOT of drama - and with B&tB's set-up this year there's a lot of potential for honest conflict - real disagreements between them on goals and methods and tactics, where they can disagree and still be together. Anybody watch season 4 of Chuck? Chuck & Sarah were together, but still had relationship angst, conflicts, etc. It can be done. Anybody know how they're doing it on Castle? I'm not current on that show but I think Castle & Beckett have been together for a while... Yes, Castle & Beckett were together last season and they continue... Also in Bones they have been together for a while, right? last monday was the wedding, I think (I don't watch it). Lois & Clark were together for 3 seasons! Charmed (which Brad Kern was the producer for the whole 9 seasons) kept together one of the couples for all the seasons with up and downs, some break up, but also 2 children!
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Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Oct 23, 2013 16:45:24 GMT -5
Alias!! <3 Syndey and Vaughn!!!! All time favorite show and couple before Vincat... now it's a toss up. Ahh... Spydancer... I loved Sydney and Vaughn too!! They were sooo sweet, and he was so romantic... great chemistry between them too! and they even had "a thing" in real life for some time, before Ben Affleck came and wooed her But yeah... VinCat is Vincat... difficult to choose but I would pick VinCat... maybe because now it's on fire! Yes, alas, VinCat is probably my favorite couple - but Alias on the whole as a show... well that is another comparison. BATB has Alias-like potential, which we are just now starting to live up to, I think... but couple wise, Vincent and Catherine, yes, yes and YES! They broke the mold. Anyway, it's funny to remember. Also, yes, Vartan and Garner, are two of the reasons I'm not a real life shipper anymore, because I actually think that little love affair was bad for the show... They recovered, but it was awkward for a while, and their chemistry was not the same. Anyway... clearly I'm off topic. LOL. I started an Alias thread under other TV shows for people like me, but it's lonely over there... But you are right, though, VinCat are on fire :-) We need a combusting icon to better describe the hotness...
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 23, 2013 16:54:26 GMT -5
Alias!! <3 Syndey and Vaughn!!!! All time favorite show and couple before Vincat... now it's a toss up. Ahh... Spydancer... I loved Sydney and Vaughn too!! They were sooo sweet, and he was so romantic... great chemistry between them too! and they even had "a thing" in real life for some time, before Ben Affleck came and wooed her But yeah... VinCat is Vincat... difficult to choose but I would pick VinCat... maybe because now it's on fire! yes i agree, i also really loved the relationship between them too, though I have to say I was even more touched by the relationship between her and her dad! i know, u will think i ma mad, but for me that was the key relationship in the series...
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Oct 23, 2013 17:00:44 GMT -5
Ahh... Spydancer... I loved Sydney and Vaughn too!! They were sooo sweet, and he was so romantic... great chemistry between them too! and they even had "a thing" in real life for some time, before Ben Affleck came and wooed her But yeah... VinCat is Vincat... difficult to choose but I would pick VinCat... maybe because now it's on fire! Yes, alas, VinCat is probably my favorite couple - but Alias on the whole as a show... well that is another comparison. BATB has Alias-like potential, which we are just now starting to live up to, I think... but couple wise, Vincent and Catherine, yes, yes and YES! They broke the mold. Anyway, it's funny to remember. Also, yes, Vartan and Garner, are two of the reasons I'm not a real life shipper anymore, because I actually think that little love affair was bad for the show... They recovered, but it was awkward for a while, and their chemistry was not the same. Anyway... clearly I'm off topic. LOL. I started an Alias thread under other TV shows for people like me, but it's lonely over there... But you are right, though, VinCat are on fire :-) We need a combusting icon to better describe the hotness... I agree, Alias was a brilliant show, but only the first 3 seasons (especially the first two), after that i didnt think it was as good anymore.
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Post by ArwenFan on Oct 23, 2013 18:33:10 GMT -5
One thing I notices it why Tess didn't recognize agent Reynolds from the crime scene when she has seen photo of him on daddy chandler smashed up IPad I doubt he has changed that much ? Unless what she saw on the iPad comes in to play later in the season She's too busy making little snide remarks about Vincent to remember she's seen Reynolds twice...once in Joe's office and once on the smashed up iPad.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2013 18:39:53 GMT -5
I am legitimately confused by your post and would love it if you would explain certain points more. 1) Explain what you mean about the sexism and the 'condoning' of the shove, cause I really didn't see it that way. Cat told him off plenty of times plus, VK was willing to never be part of her life because recognized the gravity of what he did to her. 2) Also, when did he sell his soul? I think I have posted about this already but I feel like the effect of reprogramming is underestimated. To me it seems very important and the crux of 2.0. He isn't in control of what he is doing. They have reprogrammed his mind so whatever he is doing are the orders/instructions that have been given to him. Plus the only time we noticed that he questioned what his mission was, was when he confronted Condor about the list. He doesn't question what he is doing because of the programming. 3) I was thinking about the falling in love each season thing and I highly doubt they will take that route. In one of the SDCC interviews with the EPs, they mentioned that they (or Brad I guess) had a 5-season arc in mind and I would think that includes the romance as well. 4) Vincent really isn't hiding. He's running around the streets of NY all willy nilly. The most we could say he is 'hiding' is what his mission is and that I would chalk up to the programming he's undergone. 1)The writers made sure to show Cat as revengeful in the dance scene. Vincent told that to her face. That really bothered me. Not flattering at all. Sorry, but I failed to see Cat admitting to people and – most importantly – to herself what he had done. And I don't think that Vincent telling JT and not Cat that he was sorry and wanted to stay away really counts as an apology.
2)I think it's implied that Vincent knows that he's working to the same people that thought it was a wonderful idea to transform soldiers into monsters. They're not Muirfield, yes, but they're the ones that payed Muirfield. Therefore, the same.
3)Maybe. I just don't really understand the necessity of VinCat falling in love again. I think Vincent's abduction could result in a lot of “running for their lives” eps, which could include the action that the producers claim will attract male audience. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I sure hope not every season has this incoherency.
4)I don't see like that. Yes, Vincent walks around NY, but no one really knows about him, he's a shadow. But, if he's not in hiding, what's the reason for the show? Where's the emotion on seeing VinCat fighting for their relationship in an impossible situation? Most of the thrill for me in 1st season was hoping that he wouldn't get caught and no one would see him.
I'm glad that you asked those questions. Good talk!
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Post by kiki09 on Oct 24, 2013 1:00:22 GMT -5
1)The writers made sure to show Cat as revengeful in the dance scene. Vincent told that to her face. That really bothered me. Not flattering at all. Sorry, but I failed to see Cat admitting to people and – most importantly – to herself what he had done. And I don't think that Vincent telling JT and not Cat that he was sorry and wanted to stay away really counts as an apology. 2)I think it's implied that Vincent knows that he's working to the same people that thought it was a wonderful idea to transform soldiers into monsters. They're not Muirfield, yes, but they're the ones that payed Muirfield. Therefore, the same. 3)Maybe. I just don't really understand the necessity of VinCat falling in love again. I think Vincent's abduction could result in a lot of “running for their lives” eps, which could include the action that the producers claim will attract male audience. It just doesn't make any sense to me. I sure hope not every season has this incoherency. 4)I don't see like that. Yes, Vincent walks around NY, but no one really knows about him, he's a shadow. But, if he's not in hiding, what's the reason for the show? Where's the emotion on seeing VinCat fighting for their relationship in an impossible situation? Most of the thrill for me in 1st season was hoping that he wouldn't get caught and no one would see him. I'm glad that you asked those questions. Good talk! [/font][/quote] Okay, fair point for 3 and 4. I don't necessarily agree per se but I defiantly see how you got to these conclusions. Re 2) to me I feel like I would need to know the extent of what Vincent actually knows to make that conclusion. What does he actually know about himself and his history as a beast? Does he know his origins or does all he knows stem from what Muirfield/FBI told him during those three months? If they could provide answers to what exactly happened to him in those three months and the extent of the change they made on him, then I think I could made the implication. Re 1) I don't know if I would have acted differently from Cat during the dance (whether that's a good thing or bad thing in context who knows). I feel like she actually needed to call Vincent out on what he did. Yes there were some petty jabs but at that point both of them were just blatantly deceiving each other, on purpose. To me, what they are trying to show more this season I guess, is that Cat is flawed. Not to use real life as the baseline, but in reality, despite wanting to be 'strong' all the time, I don't think that is possible. Sometimes, weaknesses show and maybe that is what they were trying to show with her during the dance. I agree with you. I don't think Cat has properly acknowledged what he has done especially to herself. She was making excuses for it the entire time but Cat never actually confronts most of her issues head on so this time apart I hope will let her do that. Lastly, I don't think him going to JT was an apology. He did apologize to her in the boathouse. But I mentioned that scene with JT only because in that scene we can see that he actually verbalized the gravity of what he did to Cat, unfortunately not to her. All in all, thanks for clarifying those points for me. It was greatly appreciated.
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 24, 2013 1:43:07 GMT -5
Ahh... Spydancer... I loved Sydney and Vaughn too!! They were sooo sweet, and he was so romantic... great chemistry between them too! and they even had "a thing" in real life for some time, before Ben Affleck came and wooed her But yeah... VinCat is Vincat... difficult to choose but I would pick VinCat... maybe because now it's on fire! Yes, alas, VinCat is probably my favorite couple - but Alias on the whole as a show... well that is another comparison. BATB has Alias-like potential, which we are just now starting to live up to, I think... but couple wise, Vincent and Catherine, yes, yes and YES! They broke the mold. Anyway, it's funny to remember. Also, yes, Vartan and Garner, are two of the reasons I'm not a real life shipper anymore, because I actually think that little love affair was bad for the show... They recovered, but it was awkward for a while, and their chemistry was not the same. Anyway... clearly I'm off topic. LOL. I started an Alias thread under other TV shows for people like me, but it's lonely over there... But you are right, though, VinCat are on fire :-) We need a combusting icon to better describe the hotness... Where's that thread? I'm going right now there! I LOVED Alias and didn't have the chance of a forum like this in that period! I will be delighted to chat about it! And yesss... I agree, that romance made weird the 4th season for some time...
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Post by Savana_ Dying for season3! on Oct 24, 2013 1:44:22 GMT -5
Ahh... Spydancer... I loved Sydney and Vaughn too!! They were sooo sweet, and he was so romantic... great chemistry between them too! and they even had "a thing" in real life for some time, before Ben Affleck came and wooed her But yeah... VinCat is Vincat... difficult to choose but I would pick VinCat... maybe because now it's on fire! yes i agree, i also really loved the relationship between them too, though I have to say I was even more touched by the relationship between her and her dad! i know, u will think i ma mad, but for me that was the key relationship in the series... ohhh!!! Anapi, go right now to that thread Spydancer talks about!!! We NEED to discuss about it! But I AGREE with you!!! OHHHH... that dad-daughter relationship was I cried so much at the end...
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