|
Post by Bill the beast on Jul 2, 2014 15:02:42 GMT -5
Another example of Beast powers on the fritz: In the 2x17 shower scene, Vincent could sense Gabe at the door, yet in this episode he didn't sense Gabe when he was outside Cat's door wanting to exchange the cake. I think Vincent has an exaggerated view of his hearing Beast-power. Remember when Cat and Vincent had Sam in the interrogation room and Sam fingered Gabe as the bad guy from a picture on the wall? Vincent had no idea Sam was conning them. Likewise many times before they finally knew Sam was the bad guy. That's not to mention his complete inability to track Sam, which was never explained.
|
|
|
Post by Bill the beast on Jul 2, 2014 16:53:43 GMT -5
"I suppose she could have kicked him in the balls" Nice thought. I like the visual."So while I don't think this kiss or any of the other non-VinCat kisses Vincent and Catherine participated in have ruined their character..." "Ruined"? No. But damaged, yes, from as far back as the night her Mom died. My point was never that kissing Gabe (now or in the past) was what hurt Catherine. We have been focussing on why Catherine let him. She could easily have turned her head. My view is she wasn't entirely repulsed by Gabe at that point. She ENJOYED the fake date a little. So she was a little conflicted. Later she admits to him that she hoped the good man she knew was still in there.
But we all know he never was a good man. Why didn't Catherine know?"I do find letting Gabe get away with murder because they don't want to expose Vincent or everything that they have covered up, to be terrible for all of the Fab 4. Apparently the only reason, they were determined to get Gabe for murder was because he was getting in the way of Vincent's exoneration??" I agree that's troubling. They are being motivated by fear and it distorts their vision. But then what happened in "Ever After"? They could have felt safe for at least 30 seconds but Catherine had to impose justice on the world. But then I've gone on and on about that ...
|
|
|
Post by francesca on Jul 2, 2014 23:54:04 GMT -5
I was thinking about a thing that came right to my mind. Why Gabe tells Catherine that "hopefully Vincent is being dissected into little pieces" ? Does it mean he has something to do with the GMan that took Vincent in prison? I am confused by this line. What did I miss?
|
|
|
Post by ArwenFan on Jul 3, 2014 0:02:31 GMT -5
But you forgot to say that those said agents are also the ones who got him exonerated. I have to wonder did they set him up so that they could take him from jail and take his blood and once they had it they exonerated him? What threw me off on the heartbeats was yes Vincent was checking to see if they were telling the truth. But they really weren't truthful, since they weren't working for Agent Knox, yet their beats were calm and steady. Another example of Beast powers on the fritz: In the 2x17 shower scene, Vincent could sense Gabe at the door, yet in this episode he didn't sense Gabe when he was outside Cat's door wanting to exchange the cake. Anyway, the bigger question is what do these new FBI guys (if they are FBI) really want with Vincent and why did they "really" let him go? I guess we'll find out sooner or later, but I don't think it was just to kill Gabe. IMO, you really can't say Vincent's beast powers are on the fritz. This isn't an exact science and he is a human being subject to feelings and distractions. We don't know who those suits were, what they know or don't know. They could have taken something to keep their heartbeats steady for all we know. And Vincent was emotionally upset about Catherine having anything to do with Gabe, he was also upset by the kiss. My point? His focus is on Catherine, not someone who might be at the door. When he heard Gabe the first time, the situation was far more urgent; cops were staking out Cat's building and Gabe had pretty much put an open season target on his back. Naturally, his senses are going to be heightened and he would be on guard for any threat. Just my two cents.
|
|
|
Post by ArwenFan on Jul 3, 2014 0:06:12 GMT -5
I think Vincent has an exaggerated view of his hearing Beast-power. Remember when Cat and Vincent had Sam in the interrogation room and Sam fingered Gabe as the bad guy from a picture on the wall? Vincent had no idea Sam was conning them. Likewise many times before they finally knew Sam was the bad guy. That's not to mention his complete inability to track Sam, which was never explained. I think it's safe to say Sam was a psychopath and he was able to evade Vincent's tracking skills; it was mentioned a couple of times.
|
|
|
Post by ArwenFan on Jul 3, 2014 0:21:02 GMT -5
"Ruined"? No. But damaged, yes, from as far back as the night her Mom died. My point was never that kissing Gabe (now or in the past) was what hurt Catherine. We have been focussing on why Catherine let him. She could easily have turned her head. My view is she wasn't entirely repulsed by Gabe at that point. She ENJOYED the fake date a little. So she was a little conflicted. Later she admits to him that she hoped the good man she knew was still in there.
But we all know he never was a good man. Why didn't Catherine know? This is the problem I have with Catherine as well and I guess it's one of her flaws. She blindly trusts the wrong people: Gabe and Bob Reynolds are high on the list, and she takes a lot of unnecessary crap from people she invests emotions in. Beats me why Bob Reynolds fits into this category, but in Gabe's case he was trying to make up for all the bad when the bottom fell out with Vincent. He was supportive of all her schemes and did whatever he could to help. He was "there for her" when her world was falling apart and said all the right things. So she allowed herself to trust him and believe he was good. She resists evidence to the contrary until it literally smacks her upside the head. The fact that she kept spouting "he's trying to protect me from you" to Vincent of all people is mind-boggling and makes me want to shake her until her teeth rattle.
|
|
|
Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 3, 2014 0:39:27 GMT -5
What threw me off on the heartbeats was yes Vincent was checking to see if they were telling the truth. But they really weren't truthful, since they weren't working for Agent Knox, yet their beats were calm and steady. Another example of Beast powers on the fritz: In the 2x17 shower scene, Vincent could sense Gabe at the door, yet in this episode he didn't sense Gabe when he was outside Cat's door wanting to exchange the cake. Anyway, the bigger question is what do these new FBI guys (if they are FBI) really want with Vincent and why did they "really" let him go? I guess we'll find out sooner or later, but I don't think it was just to kill Gabe. IMO, you really can't say Vincent's beast powers are on the fritz. This isn't an exact science and he is a human being subject to feelings and distractions. We don't know who those suits were, what they know or don't know. They could have taken something to keep their heartbeats steady for all we know. And Vincent was emotionally upset about Catherine having anything to do with Gabe, he was also upset by the kiss. My point? His focus is on Catherine, not someone who might be at the door. When he heard Gabe the first time, the situation was far more urgent; cops were staking out Cat's building and Gabe had pretty much put an open season target on his back. Naturally, his senses are going to be heightened and he would be on guard for any threat. Just my two cents. OK, I can go along with that. But if I were Vincent and my focus was on Cat during the shower, I'd be way too preoccupied to sense Gabe at the door!
|
|
|
Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Jul 3, 2014 3:35:51 GMT -5
"The Kiss"
1. Catherine was slightly startled when Gabe kissed her, but knew she needed to keep up the pretense to make the whole fake date scheme work. It might have thrown him off if she'd pulled back, considering how far their relationship had gone when they were together.
2. She didn't try to hide any of it from Vincent. She told them everything, showing again how it didn't mean anything to her, other than her concern for how Vincent would take it.
3. Actually, I found it quite adorable how crazy all of it was making Vincent. He was so fixated on Gabe making moves or hurting his woman that it became humorous rather than horrific. His facial expressions, pacing, smashing screens, blurring across the room, and generally making JT, Tess and Heather crazy were great.
4. The kiss between V/T and C/G can't even fairly be compared. Apples and oranges. Plus, from what I remember, Catherine never seemed bothered or threatened by it anyway. She figured it out rather quickly that T had an effect on V and chalked it up to that. She was jealous deep down by V and T's connection, but the kiss never seemed relevant.
5. The audience seemed more upset by the peck than the participants did. Of course, Gabe thought he was doing pretty well, that he was making progress with her and Catherine was accepting him, with the kiss backing it up. We know better, right?
6. I'm way more interested in kisses between Catherine and Vincent. I agree, but I don't think it meant nothing to Vincent, (it wouldn't have for me) It's about trust, and the kiss can't help but shake it......look at me I'm getting feminine on this. LOL Vinc is very understanding or he's repressing problems. only two options. My question is why did the show runner feel it was necessary? lol Why did anyone think anything was "necessary" this season (I'm talking about the third party love triangles, kissing, and gratuitous sex). It was all about pushing boundaries, and the outer limits of what was tolerable if you ask me. But at least in this case, Catherine's motivation, is to keep up the pretense that she genuinely has an open heart towards Gabe during this fake date (preposterous as that concept is after he murders and kidnaps in the name of his own agenda) ...
|
|
|
Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Jul 3, 2014 3:43:37 GMT -5
Just a few impressions of "Fake Date, 2x21. 3) Catherine gave Gabe a good solid punch to the chest and it stopped his heart? Well, OK, maybe. But then, apparently, if you resussitate a former-Beast, you alter their DNA and they're a Beast once more? Really? What does DNA mean to these writers? 5) Catherine: "You lost, Gabe. And it makes me really sad. Because there was a time when I really had feelings for you ..." Seriously? I always love your take on each episode, thanks Bill the beast! Let me quote you on #5: "Seriously?"...on both points. Gabe may have lost the battle (and the girl), but he certainly hasn't lost the war (yet!) Feelings? ? What are these feelings she had for him? # 3-I'm not sure what you mean here, Bill. Gabe knew he had lost one more battle; to win the war would require extreme action; he feels that now he can only beat the beast by becoming a beast...yes, ironic-so he chooses to inject himself with the serum. He still cannot see the true difference between himself and Vincent, and he actually doesn't know who Catherine is (or more to the point, what she is capable of doing); so he is doomed to loose the final battle. To paraphrase, as Catherine said to Gabe, she loved him. What the what? Because TPTB seem incapable of doing anything in S2 without going completely and totally overboard. When did that happen, the Catherine falling for Gabe part? I must have missed it. Looked like they were friends with benefits to me.
|
|
|
Post by SpydancerLovesVincat on Jul 3, 2014 3:54:47 GMT -5
i think that the non-kiss at the end (cause it was a non-kiss really) is not the issue. the issue in this case is with the broader idea of going on a fake date with Gabe. i personally think a lot of good came out of that fake date but i can understand why peopel would have an issue with it. but i just dont understand not having an issue with the fake date yet having an issue with the non-kiss. if i put myself in either cat;s or vincent's place the end kiss would be teh least of my concerns/issues. Look, I have no problem with the "fake date"..... I do have a problem with Cat allowing the kiss....What was the reason? She didn't need it to sell the date, a simple "I'M NOT THERE YET" would have accomplished the same thing. What happened to "light and easy"? I don't believe she wanted the kiss, so I'm left with .... she's still conflicted, or she didn't think it would mean any thing to Vinc. I'm going with #2, but that's still pretty niavie for a NY'orker. How did she plan on selling the kiss to Vinc? and I'm not saying she enjoyed it!!!!! Peck or not. =) Oh, I don't think it was absolutely necessary to "sell the date" but I think she knew she was skating on thin ice with Gabe and she thought it might have been necessary. It was more or less like she was undercover and Vincent's secret (his beast hood), depended entirely on her ability to maintain the cover that she had an "open heart" (ridiculous as that sounds) to Gabe. A peck between two people who have been intimate in the past maintains the pretense if you ask me. I think the kiss sealed the deal for Gabe that she was genuine, if she had turned away, maybe he would have smelled the rat. I think she could have pushed the boundaries just a tad by turning her face slightly, but I think she knew that doing so would have been a risk, so she didn't do it. I don't think it had anything - at all - to do with her feeling conflicted or how she thought Vincent would feel. I think she knew V. would hate it, but she did it to maintain her cover. I mean, for the record, I don't appreciate the writers need to push the boundaries with us, and I didn't like the kiss for that reason, but I can see why in the context of the situation, it was done (unlike about 100 other things in S2).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 8:49:18 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by ArwenFan on Jul 3, 2014 10:09:06 GMT -5
Look, I have no problem with the "fake date"..... I do have a problem with Cat allowing the kiss....What was the reason? She didn't need it to sell the date, a simple "I'M NOT THERE YET" would have accomplished the same thing. What happened to "light and easy"? I don't believe she wanted the kiss, so I'm left with .... she's still conflicted, or she didn't think it would mean any thing to Vinc. I'm going with #2, but that's still pretty niavie for a NY'orker. How did she plan on selling the kiss to Vinc? and I'm not saying she enjoyed it!!!!! Peck or not. =) Oh, I don't think it was absolutely necessary to "sell the date" but I think she knew she was skating on thin ice with Gabe and she thought it might have been necessary. It was more or less like she was undercover and Vincent's secret (his beast hood), depended entirely on her ability to maintain the cover that she had an "open heart" (ridiculous as that sounds) to Gabe. A peck between two people who have been intimate in the past maintains the pretense if you ask me. I think the kiss sealed the deal for Gabe that she was genuine, if she had turned away, maybe he would have smelled the rat. I think she could have pushed the boundaries just a tad by turning her face slightly, but I think she knew that doing so would have been a risk, so she didn't do it. I don't think it had anything - at all - to do with her feeling conflicted or how she thought Vincent would feel. I think she knew V. would hate it, but she did it to maintain her cover. I mean, for the record, I don't appreciate the writers need to push the boundaries with us, and I didn't like the kiss for that reason, but I can see why in the context of the situation, it was done (unlike about 100 other things in S2). Plus when she was updating her partners in crime she said it was all she could do not to push Gabe off her, but she didn't because once Vincent was exonerated they would never have to see Gabe again. (Closed captioning.)
|
|
|
Post by texasscotian on Jul 3, 2014 10:23:03 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jul 3, 2014 10:40:07 GMT -5
more than the review itself i found the comments under the review pretty interesting. i would love us (after the season finishes) to maybe have a discussion aroudn both seasons and identify things that we feel want to be improved and maybe even summarise them and send them to the writers... really everything is perfect with batb but the writing/plot/storylines and consequently character development which sometimes are a bit all over the place. i can see what Lilith is saying about this episode, it was a bit nonsensical if you really sit and think about it..don't get me wrong i still really liked it but i also very much agree with many of the comments under Lilith's review.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2014 11:02:22 GMT -5
I find her "reviews" pretty disappointing/useless. She has some comic flair (at times), but she essentially just recaps the episodes and highlights what anybody who watched the episode already knows/saw. There are a LOT better reviews of the episodes from the members right here on this forum.
|
|