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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 20, 2015 21:33:04 GMT -5
I liked this episode more than I thought I would after reading the spoilers this morning. It was exciting and I liked the action. While I get where Tess was coming from by being annoyed that the people she was trying to protect where not appreciating her efforts I agree with the observation that she is only looking at how this will affect her position in a negative way which seems like that's what she has always been about since season 1. She seems to be a half empty glass kind of a person. I was under the impression that as police it is their job to protect the public from threats and to arrest people who commit crime which is what everyone was trying to do. Sometimes from the way Tess behaves anyone can be forgiven for thinking that Vincat created those threats because sometimes it looks like she blames them for being who they are or seems to imply that they have a choice in what is going on around them which I don't think they have or can they just snap their fingers and everything would just go away. As Vincent said last week JT and Cat are his family so I do get why JT risks his life for them and I am sure that they would also risk their lives for JT if it came to that because they are family. Tess comes across in my opinion as wanting to control what people do although I am not completely dismissing her point of view. Can I get a witness?
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 20, 2015 21:33:37 GMT -5
I think that what we are meant to see on our screens is that the RAW, primal FEAR for Catherine is losing Vincent, and it triggers the, for lack of a better term, Super-Soldier side of her. Like Season 2 early Vincent without memories, Cat becomes focused SOLELY on the mission. And her Mission is to protect Vincent. So the emotions shut down and the rage and anger surface when he is endangered now because she CAN'T imagine her life without him in it. She lost her mother, murdered in front of her, and everyone else that she has loved or cared for has either died or abandoned her at some point, even Vincent, although he had the whole brainwashing/trauma excuse.
So Cat has been powerless quite often in life regarding her abilities to protect her loved ones. And that really has created this season's Mission-set Cat that can focus on little else outside of the "threat" (Danger, Will Robinson!). So we will get to see (at least, I WILL GET TO SEE WHEN THIS EPISODE FINALLY COMES TO THE US on Thursday!) a Cat pushed to the edge when it looks like Vincent is about to die right in front of her.
And that means that Mission-driven Cat can't allow the emotions in or really even enjoy her engagement, ALL because it could be so easily taken from her. So she can't focus on marriage or its import at all at this point. NOTICE how emotionally-involved and ALL OVER Vincent she was in 301 BEFORE AN ACTUAL THREAT was identified. Once said threat became verifiable, Cat has basically almost shut down her emotional side and been unable to empathize or even bask in the thing she OBVIOUSLY wanted so much in 301.
Again, DEFINITELY looks like PTSD. Cat even pushes Vincent away when she needs him the most because she might lose him or fail to protect him while engaging in "emotions." So I think there is a ready-made explanation for the Cat we are seeing on our screen.
AND there may be an even more evolutional explanation forthcoming. Who knows? I never know what to expect from the writers. But we saw Rebecca seemingly go through this SAME TYPE of behavior. Her need to protect Alistair seemingly got him inadvertently killed. Catherine is trying SO HARD to avoid the same mistakes, yet she also has that same DRIVE to protect Vincent to the point of it coming in-between them, as she seems so uninterested in living her life/being engaged, etc.
So while there is an obvious explanation, it is utterly unromantic to send the character of a romantic television show to deprogramming or extensive therapy for PTSD (although they made it actually HOT and revealing in Season 1 with David the shrink! And BATB is known for repeating certain issues, such as trauma and the fallout it causes). Which leaves Cat having to work through her issues DIRECTLY IN THE FIELD or with Vincent.
I'm sensing there will be a breakdown or some kind of revelations moment for VinCat coming (maybe even a mythological explanation), so I'm still hoping there is a REASON for Cat's inability to enjoy much of anything romantic before going into Mission Primal Protect-My-Mate at all Costs mode.
I'm really wanting to see the scene for myself where Cat goes possibly primeval on the Bad Woman in this episode. And see Vincent's look for myself to see if he thinks there is a reason to worry for her.
The writers may also just be trying to show that Cat really DOES love Vincent with all her being and will do or become ANYTHING in order to protect him. Just wish that meant she could emotionally vest in her own wedding. Cat CLEARLY wants her life with Vincent beyond the telling of it, so I'm still convinced there is a rationale for Cat's behavior such as has been explained above. Will just have to see the episode for myself.
But I'm glad for the mixed reviews in a way. I don't have any expectations, and I may end up thoroughly enjoying the maddening rush that is this episode. Will have to SOMEHOW get through the next couple of days to see for myself. Still LOVING all the opinions and insight into the episode.
And as always, I'll take VinCat love in any way that I can get it--even if it comes in the form of gladitorial-enraged-fighter Cat-mode! AT LEAST we know she just CAN'T tolerate being without him, even if she can't take the time to enjoy being engaged in order to worry about the Great Unknown(s)! (And Cat having all that adrenaline CAN benefit Vincent in other ways---and there goes my mind BACK into the VinCat gutter!)
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 20, 2015 21:38:33 GMT -5
no big review from me today thought the episode was ok but tired of watching episodes that give me no feels - after an episode i loved last week, this was back to s3 normality - oh well a couple of things i liked/loved: - i loved the scene when they were captured and i absolutely loved vincent's 'I love you' at that time. gave me chills - i liked the whole niagara marriage scene - thought the receptionist was hilarious and the whole scene was well done - loved vincent and jay did a great job the things i did not like (sorry longer list) - no real feels vincat wise - the vast majority of writers there cannot write vincat -death by repetition- was bored with the action/baddie etc - that storyline did not excite me at all (another non scary baddie...) - enough with all the wedding talk ... really we are going round in circles and circles and circles repeating same lines and talking about stuff that dont really matter again and again...- the jt/t storyline/relationship is at this point more mature (also script wise) than the vincat one...and with this break up we just gave them more opportunity to create more drama for them to come back together ... which they will... no doubt in my mind about that - cat was a pain in the butt yet again... good to know she learnt her lessons and what matters most in episode 6...enough already - too many i love u's from cat which i did not really care about...or fully believe Not quite at this point yet. AFthat's it from me - on to episode 8 in a week... Co-signed.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 20, 2015 21:50:46 GMT -5
ARWENFAN:
I was typing my post at the time you had posted yours, so I only saw it after I had posted.
I, too, think there is something more going on with Cat and that we were meant to see this in her overwhelming response to this Julianna person--(still waiting to see for myself on Thursday. Just going by other's comments for now.). I'm thinking said explanation is forthcoming, I hope. Cat CLEARLY wanted that engagement in 301 and was all over Vincent in every way. But once the Threat appeared, she locked down the emotions and became Mission-focused, even to the point of hurting those nearest and dearest to her. VIncent is the only one to really be able to call forth the Cat we know and love, but he has had his OWN distractions this season, which means that the tell-tale signs have gone unnoticed maybe until now.
And I agree with your assessment of Tess. I try to explain some of her behavior by her just NOT having a threshold of comparison to go by---she obviously couldn't be close to her overcompetitive brothers who seemed bent on bringing her down. But sadly, she emulates much of their behavior and minimalizes the needs and concerns of others IF it impacts her own career. And the fact that JT does have such a close FAMILY relationship to Vincent SHOULD be seen as a good thing by her. After all, look how quickly JT defended HER to her own family. Again, will have to wait to see the episode for myself.
And you also KNOW how I felt about Tess almost talking down to Cat a couple of episodes ago WHEN CAT WAS RIGHT about Bob and Carol and their trying to lure them out. And had maybe Tess listened to Cat, a couple of innocents might not have had to die. So Tess always acts superior in her knowledge and understanding and yet is proven, time and again, not to be. Yet still repeats the same actions and seems to value her career above all else. All while telling Cat to be different.
Could only take issue with your even CONTEMPLATING Vincent dumping Cat. That is a BAD THOUGHT!!!! Wrong on every level. The universe would shift, explode and die at the very implications. MUST NEVER hear that again!!! Must now go WASH OUT MY EARS AND EYES at the mere hint of such a possibility! (HeeHeeHee!!)
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Post by tonysol on Jul 20, 2015 21:55:13 GMT -5
Could it be that the inconsistencies we see in the characters are due to the many writers on the staff? I admit I'm no expert on how shows are supposed to run, but if week to week the writers keep changing, the style definitely cannot be simialr without some moderation by the producers/directors right? And with Sherri and Jennifer gone... Looking at a show like Game of Thrones, most of the episodes are written by Benioff and Weiss, with George Martin contirbuting occasionally, so I would say the tone and flow of the show is much better there.
Anyone can clarify?
Looking forward, next week's key episode is written and directed by the curren key people (am I allowed to mention them in this thread or is that considered a spoiler?) so we should get a better idea how the rest of season will turn out. While I loved 3x06 with Jill Carter and Gillian Horvath, remember beasties that 3x01 was written by Brad Kern.
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Post by Laura on Jul 20, 2015 22:56:44 GMT -5
Could it be that the inconsistencies we see in the characters are due to the many writers on the staff? I admit I'm no expert on how shows are supposed to run, but if week to week the writers keep changing, the style definitely cannot be simialr without some moderation by the producers/directors right? And with Sherri and Jennifer gone... I think it was the same in season one as well, many writers in the writers' room. But they were on the same page, or at least it seemed like that. The problem, as you mentioned, is that those who really knew the heart and soul of the show are gone. Okay it happens all the time, apparently, in this business. But I'm afraid the replacement(s) is/are not on a par with those who have left. I am not against change, I do support it. But this season seems like a completely different show (not in a good way), and unfortunately, as much as I still love this show so very much, I'm not loving the story line/direction. The characters seem alien to me sometimes. And don't get me started on how repetitive the lines, plots etc. are (I'm becoming repetitive myself ). Reading people on Twitter, and seeing the number of those who are complaining about this season increasing, makes me wonder what would have happened had they not finished filming season 3. I don't mean to nag, and I had promised myself I wouldn't comment any further on this episode. Don't want to ruin some people's good mood, as I see many have enjoyed this episode so much. However, since I think this is a "forum", and we are all here to express our opinions, I decided I'd post this. The world would be a very boring place if we all agreed with each other all the time.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 20, 2015 23:00:21 GMT -5
Could it be that the inconsistencies we see in the characters are due to the many writers on the staff? I admit I'm no expert on how shows are supposed to run, but if week to week the writers keep changing, the style definitely cannot be simialr without some moderation by the producers/directors right? And with Sherri and Jennifer gone... Looking at a show like Game of Thrones, most of the episodes are written by Benioff and Weiss, with George Martin contirbuting occasionally, so I would say the tone and flow of the show is much better there. Anyone can clarify? I'm not an expert, but I think most shows have a group of writers with a supervising writer to oversee their scripts. There is plan for the season and if I remember correctly, writers are assigned certain episodes. I believe there is a plan for the characters, and it's becoming obvious that Catherine is on some kind of journey. Realizing that doesn't make me any more tolerant of her more annoying traits, but these people are professionals, so I can't subscribe to the notion that they're just whipping out scripts wily nily. As for Game of Thrones being a more tightly written series, I think they have certainly made their share of missteps during 5 seasons; however, they are on a network that spares no expense in productions values and gives the audience what they want...sex, nudity and violence. You can put up with a lot of crap when they're giving you what you want.
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 20, 2015 23:02:49 GMT -5
The problem, as you mentioned, is that those who really knew the heart and soul of the show are gone. Okay it happens all the time, apparently, in this business. But I'm afraid the replacement(s) is/are not on a par with those who have left. I am not against change, I do support it. But this season seems like a completely different show (not in a good way), and unfortunately, as much as I still love this show so very much, I'm not loving the story line/direction. The characters seem alien to me sometimes. And don't get me started on how repetitive the lines, plots etc. are (I'm becoming repetitive myself ). Fair statement. Really? I was wondering what people outside this forum were thinking. Adjustments. Major adjustments.
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Post by missingalias on Jul 20, 2015 23:19:44 GMT -5
After careful consideration I'm ready to give my thoughts to you fellow beasties, but I must warn you..this ain't going to be pretty. I was hugely disappointed with this episode especially after the great episode of last week. If we then managed to get new viewers, I'm sure that they are all gone now. As many have said, this episode did not give any real emotions to me...none. Cat was a pain. I understand her beating the GI to almost death, but now panicking emotion when Vincent is saying goodbye! If she had panicked I would see much better the beating her up part. That was pretty much the only thing that had some emotion to it in the episode. I loved V standing up for himself and his ideas, but I'm not a person that's into weddings so as someone said, enough wedding talk already. I thought they told us the beginning of the season that this was the season beasties were going to get what they wanted. Well...i hope someone is but this beastie isn't. I have enough troubles and relationship problems at home that I don't need to see that in tv too. Vincat should be epic and passionate and they're written as a cold old couple. I mean the last scene. Where it was pretty, it was just like the last scenes of every episode this season not counting the 301. Always I understand you now and a couple of pecks. Come on! They almost lost each other! That doesn't mean sitting across the sofa, saying I love you and giving some pecks. For me to be frank, that means I'm gonna rip your clothes off steamy sex as soon as there is nobody watching! There is no beast in the bedroom at all! I mean I know its not hbo and they might have contractual issues regarding that but come on! Currently their relationship is at the point that I would never even find myself in! They have no passion whatsoever and only stress. Get married if that's the issue, but who cares! Passion is vincat for me and now vincat seems dead. Sorry for the repetition, but I considered were all used to it by now. writers are not using jaystins chemistry at all! As gas as the big bad of the episode goes, not intelligent enough for my liking or scary. Vicent should not have been able to kill him that easily for I to be a real threat. I'm so happy JTnT broke up. I hope it sticks. That's another thing that I've missed. Super single Tess dragging Cat out to do funny staff and some really nice dress up episodes. I so miss all the events they went to! I understand this is not season 1 and Vincat has evolved and matured, but there's a difference between matured and dead. I think I'm going to watch season 1 again now.. Not feeling this season at all anymore.
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Post by missingalias on Jul 20, 2015 23:24:09 GMT -5
Could it be that the inconsistencies we see in the characters are due to the many writers on the staff? I admit I'm no expert on how shows are supposed to run, but if week to week the writers keep changing, the style definitely cannot be simialr without some moderation by the producers/directors right? And with Sherri and Jennifer gone... Looking at a show like Game of Thrones, most of the episodes are written by Benioff and Weiss, with George Martin contirbuting occasionally, so I would say the tone and flow of the show is much better there. Anyone can clarify? I'm not an expert, but I think most shows have a group of writers with a supervising writer to oversee their scripts. There is plan for the season and if I remember correctly, writers are assigned certain episodes. I believe there is a plan for the characters, and it's becoming obvious that Catherine is on some kind of journey. Realizing that doesn't make me any more tolerant of her more annoying traits, but these people are professionals, so I can't subscribe to the notion that they're just whipping out scripts wily nily. As for Game of Thrones being a more tightly written series, I think they have certainly made their share of missteps during 5 seasons; however, they are on a network that spares no expense in productions values and gives the audience what they want...sex, nudity and violence. You can put up with a lot of crap when they're giving you what you want. After my previous outburst I must say I know what you're talking about! Those three things are the main things I'm missing on batb! season 5 of Game of Thrones was a waste of time though.
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Post by Laura on Jul 20, 2015 23:30:17 GMT -5
After careful consideration I'm ready to give my thoughts to you fellow beasties, but I must warn you..this ain't going to be pretty. I agree with most of your points. Re Cat, well, I can't not love her, just like I can't not love this show. I understand she can be annoying at times, but I always try to find a reason to justify her actions/decisions - something I've been doing quite often recently; not just for Cat, for everything on the show actually. As for VinCat scenes, I think this is what we'll continue to get this season. People are saying the miss AMP scenes, and I won't ever say no to such VinCat moments. But I am sure the lack of love scenes wouldn't have been this bothering if we had gotten enough real, passionate VinCat scenes (like the jail talk in 2x17, or their roof top moments).
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 20, 2015 23:41:49 GMT -5
Rooftop chats and romance are nice .but if it's done all the time then I'm sure you guys would be 'oh the rooftop scene again' ...Everything that is repeated gets boring....I like the fact that they find time for each other in different places...Cafe in The Most Dangerous Beast, the couch with the candles and fireplace at apartment and whatever. The point is that rooftops are special and we know what that will signify eventually in the end of s3
In ep 1 we began on roof and ended on roof.... episode 3 Vincent had wine and the wedding planner and the apology on the roof ..obviously hinting how special the roof is to both...good things come to those who wait.
Patience is a virtue and unlike many I am willing to wait.
Also the end of the series is near..I want to cherish every moment we get with these two great actors and characters which have stole my heart the last 4 seasons
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Post by Laura on Jul 20, 2015 23:46:05 GMT -5
Rooftop chats and romance are nice .but if it's done all the time then I'm sure you guys would be 'oh the rooftop scene again' ...Everything that is repeated gets boring....I like the fact that they find time for each other in different places...Cafe in The Most Dangerous Beast, the couch with the candles and fireplace at apartment and whatever. The point is that rooftops are special and we know what that will signify eventually in the end of s3 I think this is in answer to my post? Yolie, I said "like" their roof top moments, where things felt more real, mature, raw. Of course all their moments can't happen there. Believe me, I do get that It's not the setting really, but what goes on and gets said in such scenes.
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Post by missingalias on Jul 20, 2015 23:47:05 GMT -5
As for VinCat scenes, I think this is what we'll continue to get this season. People are saying the miss AMP scenes, and I won't ever say no to such VinCat moments. But I am sure the lack of love scenes wouldn't have been this bothering if we had gotten enough real, passionate VinCat scenes (like the jail talk in 2x17, or their roof top moments). Yes that's so true! Some passion would be enough if AMP kind of episode is of the table. I would beast out for an episode like that though! As you, I too try to justify Cats actions, but I find it harder episode to episode.
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 20, 2015 23:51:19 GMT -5
Rooftop chats and romance are nice .but if it's done all the time then I'm sure you guys would be 'oh the rooftop scene again' ...Everything that is repeated gets boring....I like the fact that they find time for each other in different places...Cafe in The Most Dangerous Beast, the couch with the candles and fireplace at apartment and whatever. The point is that rooftops are special and we know what that will signify eventually in the end of s3 I think this is in answer to my post? Yolie, I said "like" their roof top moments, where things felt more real, mature, raw. Of course all their moments can't happen there. Believe me, I do get that It's not the setting really, but what goes on and gets said in such scenes. LOL not directed at your really but everyone in general that has been writing the same thing... I get you really but I'm loving this season ...I guess again my expectations are lower then you guys.
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