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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 10, 2015 9:06:04 GMT -5
Thanks VinCat❤Destined for the end scene clip. So sweet. I do enjoy some of the cute VinCat banter. I like the teasing or the bickering or the "heart to heart" conversations........ It feels more normal and comfortable. I must say seeing the Season 1 Vincent and Cat scenes took my breath away. I miss Vincent's longer hair and That Scar!! Can't help it, it symbolized his Beastie-ness. It made him a bit vulnerable. Cat gave him confidence. I never saw VinCat as "co-dependent".......that's negative and it makes you think that they hold each other back. I always thought the show did a good job with making it evident that Vincent and Catherine were "Better Together". They "complete each other."..........never once did I think that Vincent and Catherine were "Co-Dependent". I just didn't see it. I hope in someway we throw that term out the window and reinforce the "independently strong" yet, "Better Together" ! You know, as much as I am enjoying this season I still have a few niggling issues with the way they are doing things especially when it comes to the essence of Vincat. I'm not talking about romance really but just the innate characteristics Vincat has. I don't mind them being different or the writers trying different things but like you said Suzieq ❤️ Beastie, there is just something about the "co-dependent" thing that rubs me the wrong way and seems wholly inaccurate. They have functioned without each other a lot throughout the seasons but as the therapist said, their lives are unusually intertwined and that's what's so great about them. Vincent and Catherine could totally live their lives apart from each other and be fine human beings, but there is just something about them together that elevates both of them. And that leads me into my other big big issue with this season, the way they treat Vincent and Catherine's connection. At this point, it feels as if Catherine is Vincent's saviour and he would be beast 24/7 if not for her. To me, this is not the way I have even seen their connection nor her effect on him. Vincent has always been able to come back from beast, whether it was with great difficulty or none at all. Yes, Catherine and their love were a very crucial part of this but HE still had to make the effort to bring himself back. It does not make sense that only after 2 months of not beasting out etc. that only Catherine can save him in the way they are saying IMO I don't like harping on about s1 but, from the beginning it was always implied that their love, their connection is what helps him come back from beast. Now they continue to overemphasise (to the point of ridiculousness) that Catherine is what brings him back. Plus it feels as if they are treating Vincent as someone without any agency and that his entire existence (coming back from beast) is wholly dependent on Catherine and nothing else. I think that is wholly incorrect and it diminishes their connection at best, and makes Vincent look incapable at worst. kiki09, I share your angst about this tendency of the writers! This is where my deep longing for the return of Sherri Cooper and Jennifer Levine really increases! They blazed the path and know where it should lead. To dumb down (And I do literally mean this) the VinCat relationship is agonizing to the loyal fan base and impeding viewer increase.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jul 10, 2015 9:54:39 GMT -5
Ok just watched the episode again and here are a few 'observations': - Vincent must not have good memories of him and Catherine in S2 and S3 since I've noticed all the flashbacks we've seen so far have been the same or from S1 ( please correct me if I'm wrong ) - So is this the end of 'super-powered J.T.'? Ummm....what was his superpower and why did they waste 5 episodes on it? - I'm still super annoyed and upset we didn't get a VinCat reunion scene! What a waste of what could have been one of THE best VinCat moments in the history of BATB! - Catherine begged Vincent not to say the 'c' word, yet not 5 seconds later she's gone and uttered the word I swear if I hear those words again, in addition to the following words: "primal, better together than apart, lose yourself " I will chase the writers with a pitchfork after pulling my hair out!! - Loved how everything around VinCat was blurred during the final kiss scene. Beautiful touch that I failed to notice during my first viewing - I don't think Vincent made it back on his own with his memories of Catherine. J.T. was basically there reminding him of Catherine's love - LOVE the J.T/V bromance! DON'T EVER MESS with that writers! Like EVER!! - I just had to share a comment I read on another site. I laughed out loud when I read it ( although I probably should have cringed inside and cried ): "I was surprised Cat didn't even make an attempt to help Carol . Reanimating Gabe was her favorite hobby last season." To have a big re union u need a build up to it though. Cat did not look that worried (another day in the office), we didn't even see Vincent all that worried and I did not feel that v or cat were in serious trouble at any point
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2015 10:30:02 GMT -5
To have a big re union u need a build up to it though. Cat did not look that worried (another day in the office), we didn't even see Vincent all that worried and I did not feel that v or cat were in serious trouble at any point Exactly! The whole situation wasn't handled well IMO. They still haven't used the chemistry between Vincent and Catherine to it's full potential and that is killing me!
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Post by kiki09 on Jul 10, 2015 12:39:59 GMT -5
You know, as much as I am enjoying this season I still have a few niggling issues with the way they are doing things especially when it comes to the essence of Vincat. I'm not talking about romance really but just the innate characteristics Vincat has. I don't mind them being different or the writers trying different things but like you said Suzieq ❤️ Beastie, there is just something about the "co-dependent" thing that rubs me the wrong way and seems wholly inaccurate. They have functioned without each other a lot throughout the seasons but as the therapist said, their lives are unusually intertwined and that's what's so great about them. Vincent and Catherine could totally live their lives apart from each other and be fine human beings, but there is just something about them together that elevates both of them. And that leads me into my other big big issue with this season, the way they treat Vincent and Catherine's connection. At this point, it feels as if Catherine is Vincent's saviour and he would be beast 24/7 if not for her. To me, this is not the way I have even seen their connection nor her effect on him. Vincent has always been able to come back from beast, whether it was with great difficulty or none at all. Yes, Catherine and their love were a very crucial part of this but HE still had to make the effort to bring himself back. It does not make sense that only after 2 months of not beasting out etc. that only Catherine can save him in the way they are saying IMO I don't like harping on about s1 but, from the beginning it was always implied that their love, their connection is what helps him come back from beast. Now they continue to overemphasise (to the point of ridiculousness) that Catherine is what brings him back. Plus it feels as if they are treating Vincent as someone without any agency and that his entire existence (coming back from beast) is wholly dependent on Catherine and nothing else. I think that is wholly incorrect and it diminishes their connection at best, and makes Vincent look incapable at worst. kiki09, I share your angst about this tendency of the writers! This is where my deep longing for the return of Sherri Cooper and Jennifer Levine really increases! They blazed the path and know where it should lead. To dumb down (And I do literally mean this) the VinCat relationship is agonizing to the loyal fan base and impeding viewer increase. I don't think it's necessarily missing Sherri/Jen because they didn't write every episode I just think current writers should look at previous seasons and be cognizant of the essence of Vincat.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 10, 2015 12:50:33 GMT -5
Have to try to get out of the office soon, so can't read the reviews now. ANAPI, are the reviews overall POSITIVE or NEGATIVE? Or are they more in-line with some of the posts of the forum? The reviews were mostly quite positive! There was only one review that was kind of "meh" about it. Add me to the list of those who loved the episode! There's so much niggling negativity in this thread that I've refrained from posting until now. I can't argue with others about something being missing, I agree with that. I want the "angst", "drama" and "epic love" in bigger doses too. However I never expected S3 to be S1. For the most part, I'm perfectly happy with S3 the way it is. Yes it's different, but it's a good kind of different for me, I'm enjoying it a lot! I think NotOnTv said it best earlier in this thread. This is exactly how I feel as well.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 10, 2015 13:10:05 GMT -5
Have to try to get out of the office soon, so can't read the reviews now. ANAPI, are the reviews overall POSITIVE or NEGATIVE? Or are they more in-line with some of the posts of the forum? The reviews were mostly quite positive! There was only one review that was kind of "meh" about it. Add me to the list of those who loved the episode! There's so much niggling negativity in this thread that I've refrained from posting until now. I can't argue with others about something being missing, I agree with that. I want the "angst", "drama" and "epic love" in bigger doses too. However I never expected S3 to be S1. For the most part, I'm perfectly happy with S3 the way it is. Yes it's different, but it's a good kind of different for me, I'm enjoying it a lot! I think NotOnTv said it best earlier in this thread. This is exactly how I feel as well. I absolutely love this show and am also enjoying S3 as perhaps from the posts, the minority are as well! My response earlier; "kiki09, I share your angst about this tendency of the writers! This is where my deep longing for the return of Sherri Cooper and Jennifer Levine really increases! They blazed the path and know where it should lead. To dumb down (And I do literally mean this) the VinCat relationship is agonizing to the loyal fan base and impeding viewer increase." has reference to a bit of what NotOnTv said about Kristin's lines. To me her dialogue at times tends to be verbose and in my opinion not in character with where VinCat are in their lives. Cat has valuable things to express, especially now, whether professionally, individually or as part of this dynamic couple. That aside, loving this couple, their mates and the show! It is the absolute highlight of my week! This time is the only time I will not be interrupted barring emergencies. Personally I barely watch television beside this show.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 10, 2015 13:18:29 GMT -5
kiki09, I share your angst about this tendency of the writers! This is where my deep longing for the return of Sherri Cooper and Jennifer Levine really increases! They blazed the path and know where it should lead. To dumb down (And I do literally mean this) the VinCat relationship is agonizing to the loyal fan base and impeding viewer increase. I don't think it's necessarily missing Sherri/Jen because they didn't write every episode I just think current writers should look at previous seasons and be cognizant of the essence of Vincat. I know kiki09, you targeted what I need from this show their cognizance of the essence of VinCat at all times! Which is why I mentioned Sherri and Jen, their love for the show and its characters came through loud and clear for me through their collaboration and in the group discussions about the show. Their excitement drew me to the show initially, please know that I am not saying that all the writers that followed have disappointed me. That couldn't be further from the truth. Sherri and Jen just portrayed a strong sense of ownership and I felt it in the dialogue within the episodes. Never do I want to mislead anyone, I LOVE this show and will continue to watch devotedly and support it! I am ALL IN and vested!
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 10, 2015 22:01:31 GMT -5
I finally blocked out the world, banned appointments/meetings and sat in a darkened room to view this episode. I LOVED IT!!! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!! I read some of the postings prior to watching which seemed to have a lot of negative feedback so I immediately stopped reading those specifically and refused to let what I had mistakenly read get into my head. I do like to form my own opinion based on facts and I can say after watching the fact is that our VinCat are fantastic and moving forward as they should with a little human doubting along the way but they are going to be just fine from this counselor's assessment. No co-dependency as I always vehemently doubted, just a little fear to trust who they really are ! Sometimes psychotherapist get it wrong because important missing facts and misleading innuendos taint a true assessment. Now on to my Season 1 re-watches this weekend because I thoroughly understand why Vincent's GEM memories are rooted in that segment of their lives! I also intend to re-watch 305 again and possibly again! I'll be popping in and out of the Forum until Sunday evening. Hope to chat with my Den! Love you my Beasties and Beasts!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 10, 2015 22:26:30 GMT -5
I finally blocked out the world, banned appointments/meetings and sat in a darkened room to view this episode. I LOVED IT!!! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!! I read some of the postings prior to watching which seemed to have a lot of negative feedback so I immediately stopped reading those specifically and refused to let what I had mistakenly read get into my head. I do like to form my own opinion based on facts and I can say after watching the fact is that our VinCat are fantastic and moving forward as they should with a little human doubting along the way but they are going to be just fine from this counselor's assessment. No co-dependency as I always vehemently doubted, just a little fear to trust who they really are ! Sometimes psychotherapist get it wrong because important missing facts and misleading innuendos taint a true assessment. Now on to my Season 1 re-watches this weekend because I thoroughly understand why Vincent's GEM memories are rooted in that segment of their lives! I also intend to re-watch 305 again and possibly again! I'll be popping in and out of the Forum until Sunday evening. Hope to chat with my Den! Love you my Beasties and Beasts! I've gone cold turkey and under no circumstances will I open a Season 3 episode or S3 spoiler thread until I've watched it first on my own. I enjoy the episodes way more when I have no idea of what might happen or any preset expectation. I think I'm going to stop watching the promos too, because even those have impacted my expectations on past episodes. I find the CW's promos often kind of mislead what might happen in an episode.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 10, 2015 22:58:04 GMT -5
BATB4EVR1,
YOU ROCK! LOVE LOVE your positivity!
And yes, many of us DO get hung up on comparing the seasons. And frankly, there is a certain bit of unfairness in doing that, PARTICULARLY since Season 3 is to be only 13 episodes long. Means that a LOT has to occur off-camera, quite necessarily, if we are to have plot. (I, however, freely admit that at times I would GLADLY sacrifice plot for VinCat scenes! I DID want that VinCat reunion scene, but there really was no time for it in order to have the whole Bob/Carol thing play out. Still have to take a moment of regret for that.)
Thank you for reminding me to just enjoy the ride rather than worry if the build-up will pay off. SHOULD give the writers more credit for having to come up with an overall season arc that utilizes Cat's detective skills and that expensive police station set as well as puts Vincent's humanity at stake.
So, with POSITIVITY in mind, WHAT I LOVED about this episode STREAMLINED:
1.) That ENDING scene: LOVE that VinCat ARE establishing new little patterns of being OUT IN THE WORLD together, even if it is just to carve a little time out to have coffee. And that they plan to ROCK THEIR BOOTIES off at a concert as well!
And just loved that the world just faded into the background because they were so in-tune and absorbed into one another. AND THAT WAS A GREAT THING!
2.) That Season 3 HAS carried over a positive thing from Season 2 highlighted in 221: the idea that Vincent tames the aggressive little beast within Catherine that wants to run roughshod over everything and lets her be sweet, loving and all the things adorable that I love about Cat. He calls her back from falling into obsession and bleak worry AND brings that joy and lovin' to her!
And Catherine, in turn, brings out the Beautiful Soul from the Primal Beast within Vincent. So Beauty and the Beast intwined means that they bring out the BEST and MOST BEAUTIFUL in each other while suppressing those nasty little aggressive tendencies in order to save oneself and others!! AND YOU REALLY SEE THIS THEME in this episode: Vincent remembers THEIR LOVE and can come back from the edge.
3.) Beastie Friendship triumphs and helps Vincent Remember Love. AND JT KNEW Vincent could come back with merely a REMINDER of Cat because their love was THAT STRONG. He had FAITH in his friend and was willing to risk his life based on that. And Tess personally charging off to Bob and Carol's apartment "off the record" in order to back her friend.
4.) JT just was PERFECT in this episode. From his absolute JOY at "playing Vincent" while kicking down the door to Bob and Carol's ("but Vincent gets to kick down the doors, why can't I?" OH JT---heeheehee!) to his willingness to take on ULTIMATE PAIN because he just IS that kind of a guy! NO WONDER Tess admits she loves him, even if she still has to PUNCH him!! That is SO something I could see Cat doing as well!!!
So yeah, what was there to complain about after all?? I got a new episode of BATB! Nothing beats it! It was the only thing I watched all week! And it gave me that big ole grin and reason to happily come back to the office (even if I DID have to work each night until after midnight!) in order for breaks with my Beastie Den!
Thanks again BATB4EVR1 for reminding me of what was REALLY important (and for playing the part of the ever-optimistic side of Vincent that is convinced it will all work out to my little moody-overly-hyper-obsessed-over-episodes/cases-until-reminded-what-really-important part of Catherine in me!) and helping me find the balance! You are a GEM!
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 11, 2015 0:39:10 GMT -5
While 301 stands alone because of those opening and closing VinCat scenes, I do agree that this one was probably for me the best as well, so far. With the other Bob & Carol ep coming in a close second.
My ranking would be:
0. 301 (special case) 1. 305 2. 303 3. 302 4. 304
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Post by Deleted on Jul 11, 2015 7:44:36 GMT -5
Means that a LOT has to occur off-camera, quite necessarily, if we are to have plot. (I, however, freely admit that at times I would GLADLY sacrifice plot for VinCat scenes! I DID want that VinCat reunion scene, but there really was no time for it in order to have the whole Bob/Carol thing play out. Still have to take a moment of regret for that.) I respectfully disagree with the comment in bold. They could have 'sacrificed' the JT and Tess related plots/scenes in this episode ( and S3 episodes we've seen so far ) to give us our VinCat scenes I crave. I don't watch the show for JTnT. I watch it for the VinCat chemistry and storyline. My issue with this season ( negativity ) is that they are SACRIFICING too much of my beloved couple's scenes to give me something I don't give a flying hoot about. It's becoming the norm this season to have extended JTnT scenes followed by shortened VinCat scenes that are leaving me in dire thirst. It's unfair and I don't like it. I'm not saying we aren't getting ANY amazing VinCat scenes because we've had quite a few but it's NOT enough. I love how they're moving along with their relationship. And I'm not comparing this to previous seasons. I just want more because it's what most of this fandom wants. I could probably count on my fingers the number of people who actually care passionately for the JTnT romance and prefer it over VinCat. So there was NO time for a VinCat reunion scene BUT there was time for JT's call to Tess? Tess lashing out and showing concern over J.T's safety? Tess talking on the phone with Vincent and asking about J.T? Time to show us Tess visiting J.T. at the Gentlemen's Club but ABSOLUTELY NO time for our lead couple? THIS is my issue this season. I could care less about the way they write other couples/characters on this show but don't you ever mess around with my VinCat. Show us the concern VinCat have for one another, their worry about their safety, put them in real danger and show us all their emotions. Don't give those lines and scenes to another couple! I hope this gave you a clearer view of my concerns this season
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Post by Laura on Jul 11, 2015 8:20:19 GMT -5
I finally blocked out the world, banned appointments/meetings and sat in a darkened room to view this episode. I LOVED IT!!! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!! I read some of the postings prior to watching which seemed to have a lot of negative feedback so I immediately stopped reading those specifically and refused to let what I had mistakenly read get into my head. I do like to form my own opinion based on facts and I can say after watching the fact is that our VinCat are fantastic and moving forward as they should with a little human doubting along the way but they are going to be just fine from this counselor's assessment. No co-dependency as I always vehemently doubted, just a little fear to trust who they really are ! Dear batb4evr1, it's not like we want to post negative comments. These are simply our opinions. I am so glad that you are loving this season, but we are all different human beings with different likes & dislikes. It's only natural that some love an episode and some don't. I totally agree with you on forming your own opinion & not reading posts/comments prior to watching the show. That's what I have been doing too. Some fans watch it earlier than the rest, and understandably they come here to post their thoughts. Dear alwayscrazedbatbfan, I have written about this in quite long-winded posts Some of us not liking/loving season 3 or some of the episodes doesn't necessarily stem from comparing it/them to season one. And I think this is quite unfair that whenever someone has a negative opinion about season 3 gets accused of being hung up on the first season, or comparing the show/VinCat with season one. Believe me, I DO understand it's a new & different season, and the dynamics of the relationship have changed (and inevitably so). I just don't enjoy the show as much as I want/expect to. It's simply a matter of opinion. You're loving season 3, I'm not. And again, me not loving this season doesn't mean I want the show to go back to the way it was in season 1
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 11, 2015 8:31:00 GMT -5
I finally blocked out the world, banned appointments/meetings and sat in a darkened room to view this episode. I LOVED IT!!! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!! I read some of the postings prior to watching which seemed to have a lot of negative feedback so I immediately stopped reading those specifically and refused to let what I had mistakenly read get into my head. I do like to form my own opinion based on facts and I can say after watching the fact is that our VinCat are fantastic and moving forward as they should with a little human doubting along the way but they are going to be just fine from this counselor's assessment. No co-dependency as I always vehemently doubted, just a little fear to trust who they really are ! Sometimes psychotherapist get it wrong because important missing facts and misleading innuendos taint a true assessment. Now on to my Season 1 re-watches this weekend because I thoroughly understand why Vincent's GEM memories are rooted in that segment of their lives! I also intend to re-watch 305 again and possibly again! I'll be popping in and out of the Forum until Sunday evening. Hope to chat with my Den! Love you my Beasties and Beasts! I've gone cold turkey and under no circumstances will I open a Season 3 episode or S3 spoiler thread until I've watched it first on my own. I enjoy the episodes way more when I have no idea of what might happen or any preset expectation. I think I'm going to stop watching the promos too, because even those have impacted my expectations on past episodes. I find the CW's promos often kind of mislead what might happen in an episode. Totally agree BeastieBoy! I'm off promos too! I have to come in untainted to the party as well! I absolutely love not knowing what coming next.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 11, 2015 8:40:39 GMT -5
I finally blocked out the world, banned appointments/meetings and sat in a darkened room to view this episode. I LOVED IT!!! I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!! I read some of the postings prior to watching which seemed to have a lot of negative feedback so I immediately stopped reading those specifically and refused to let what I had mistakenly read get into my head. I do like to form my own opinion based on facts and I can say after watching the fact is that our VinCat are fantastic and moving forward as they should with a little human doubting along the way but they are going to be just fine from this counselor's assessment. No co-dependency as I always vehemently doubted, just a little fear to trust who they really are ! Dear batb4evr1, it's not like we want to post negative comments. These are simply our opinions. I am so glad that you are loving this season, but we are all different human beings with different likes & dislikes. It's only natural that some love an episode and some don't. I totally agree with you on forming your own opinion & not reading posts/comments prior to watching the show. That's what I have been doing too. Some fans watch it earlier than the rest, and understandably they come here to post their thoughts. Dear alwayscrazedbatbfan, I have written about this in quite long-winded posts Some of us not liking/loving season 3 or some of the episodes doesn't necessarily stem from comparing it/them to season one. And I think this is quite unfair that whenever someone has a negative opinion about season 3 gets accused of being hung up on the first season, or comparing the show/VinCat with season one. Believe me, I DO understand it's a new & different season, and the dynamics of the relationship have changed (and inevitably so). I just don't enjoy the show as much as I want/expect to. It's simply a matter of opinion. You're loving season 3, I'm not. And again, me not loving this season doesn't mean I want the show to go back to the way it was in season 1 Loving you for expressing yourself in this post Laura! So true we are all Beasties and Beasts in our hearts but are diverse in our expectations and feelings. The variety of the human family is an awesome and wonderful gift! Our differing perspectives will never sever my loyalty to BATB or my Den! I wish you were loving this Season thus far but truly feel you probably will love an episode or more as it progresses.
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