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Post by Lisa on Jul 17, 2015 10:50:20 GMT -5
Did anyone else notice the bowl of gummy worms at the bar in JTs place during the scene when the Scooby gang are there having a drink? Lol, nice touch.
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Post by Suzieq ❤️ Beastie on Jul 17, 2015 11:31:17 GMT -5
Many have mentioned Kristin's crying scene and I mentioned my first recollection of Kristin Crying was in the Smallville Season 1 finale. I just thought I would post it here just for those who have never seen it. I was amazed how emotional she was. And no I don't think she was faking it. Enjoy!
Side note: Michael Rosenbaum (Lex) said in an interview years later how Kristin helped him do an emotional scene by standing off to the side of the camera and cried. He said that he loved her for that.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 17, 2015 12:47:46 GMT -5
I'm with the group consensus on this one, hands down the best episode of S3! This is BATB at its best. I don't have much to add to what others have already said regarding how great certain aspects were. A few thoughts on some topics others have mentioned (apologies for not remembering who posted what, after reading 10 pages of comments at once, mind is a blur.) - So how did Bob Reynolds have that box? All of those things should have been at Thomas Chandler's house. In fact there was an episode in S1 where Cat is going through boxes kept in the cellar looking for her mother's research. My guess or a plausible explanation is that Agent Reynolds, after getting Thomas killed, either personally or had an operative go through the Chandler residence to gather any evidence. In the process, also taking into possession those personal items like the tape Vanessa had left for cat. - I also agree that it's so wrong for Cat to call Reynolds "dad". Thomas Chandler is the only real dad she's ever had. Moreover, she's pissed at Reynolds for what he did, why call him dad? - I too have always wondered why Vanessa's grave was moved. Hope we finally get some answers on that one. We're getting back to Cat's original story arc, which is what I loved most about this episode. A random comment: The bachelor party was just odd. Can you imagine being at a coffee shop and suddenly a stripper starts doing a lap dance on a patron? It's not like they had rented the place to themselves, there were other customers there too.
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 17, 2015 13:22:35 GMT -5
BeastieBoy:
I, too, would love for it to be answered about who actually killed Thomas Chandler. In Season 1, it seemed obvious that it WAS Bob Reynolds, since Thomas was on his way to tell Catherine about him.
Granted, Muirfield could have done it on their own, without knowing the Reynolds/Chandler/Vanessa connection, but that would be at odds with what Evan obviously found in the records regarding Catherine's "parentage." Muirfield may have seen that Thomas was researching Bob on his computer and decided to "do Bob a favor" by taking out Thomas without running it by him first. At any rate, the timing is just too coincidental for Thomas to only be murdered by Muirfield right THEN, knowing he was going to make disclosures to his law enforcement daughter.
At least at the time, Bob Reynolds didn't mind emotionally hurting his daughter with the loss of someone she loved since he was willing to kidnap Vincent, KNOWING he was important to his daughter AND that he planned to kill him following the completion of his "missions." So taking out Thomas would not have bothered him at that time.
However, Bob had already started working against Muirfield at the time of the planned kidnapping of Vincent, so Thomas COULD arguably have been about to tell Catherine about Bob and how he would attempt to protect her. Thomas obviously thought it was importatn for Cat to know about Bob right then due to Bob coming back into the country. Would LOVE to know what Thomas planned to actually disclose at the time, particularly if it might have had something to do with the tape.
My final theory is that after Thomas was killed, Bob Reynolds THEN broke into the Chandler home to get whatever was left of Vanessa's research in order to keep it from falling into other hands OR from incriminating him. And in the process, he found the tape AND took the photos then. There was obviously A LOT of stuff in that box, so we may end up re-visiting all that later, assuming no one decides to take out Bob.
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Post by Lisa on Jul 17, 2015 13:33:16 GMT -5
A random comment: The bachelor party was just odd. Can you imagine being at a coffee shop and suddenly a stripper starts doing a lap dance on a patron? It's not like they had rented the place to themselves, there were other customers there too. Don't get me started on Il Cantuccio! They use it for everything! Let's kill Gabe here, oh, lets continue to hang out here even after we killed someone here, ok lets have your bachelor party here... Can you imagine a parent with their kids having lunch? "Cover your eyes, kids, that gentleman is getting a lap dance." Lol!
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Post by alwayscrazedbatbfan on Jul 17, 2015 17:00:59 GMT -5
LISA:
Thank you for bringing humor to my day!!! I remember thinking at the time while watching the episode, "ONLY in New York would THAT be possible for a stripper to just strip in an open coffee shop." I mean, can you imagine a TOURIST with their children trying to explain THAT? "Well children, before they cleaned up Times Square, you could see that ALL the time! See, they are just showing you New York HISTORY!" (And WHY would any future congressman WANT to be associated with buying a stripper for a party? Isn't that what they do AFTER they are elected???)
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 17, 2015 20:04:12 GMT -5
BeastieBoy: I, too, would love for it to be answered about who actually killed Thomas Chandler. In Season 1, it seemed obvious that it WAS Bob Reynolds, since Thomas was on his way to tell Catherine about him. Granted, Muirfield could have done it on their own, without knowing the Reynolds/Chandler/Vanessa connection, but that would be at odds with what Evan obviously found in the records regarding Catherine's "parentage." Muirfield may have seen that Thomas was researching Bob on his computer and decided to "do Bob a favor" by taking out Thomas without running it by him first. At any rate, the timing is just too coincidental for Thomas to only be murdered by Muirfield right THEN, knowing he was going to make disclosures to his law enforcement daughter. At least at the time, Bob Reynolds didn't mind emotionally hurting his daughter with the loss of someone she loved since he was willing to kidnap Vincent, KNOWING he was important to his daughter AND that he planned to kill him following the completion of his "missions." So taking out Thomas would not have bothered him at that time. However, Bob had already started working against Muirfield at the time of the planned kidnapping of Vincent, so Thomas COULD arguably have been about to tell Catherine about Bob and how he would attempt to protect her. Thomas obviously thought it was importatn for Cat to know about Bob right then due to Bob coming back into the country. Would LOVE to know what Thomas planned to actually disclose at the time, particularly if it might have had something to do with the tape. My final theory is that after Thomas was killed, Bob Reynolds THEN broke into the Chandler home to get whatever was left of Vanessa's research in order to keep it from falling into other hands OR from incriminating him. And in the process, he found the tape AND took the photos then. There was obviously A LOT of stuff in that box, so we may end up re-visiting all that later, assuming no one decides to take out Bob. I agree. The way I look at it, Reynolds was behind Muirfield. In Who Am I he told Zao that Zao worked for him and that it was time to shut down Muirfield. So whether Reynolds had Thomas killed or Muirfield did it, Reynolds is either directly or indirectly responsible for killing off both of Cat's parents. Ironically, both of Cat's biological parents (Vanessa & Bob) were responsible for creating the Beast. Cat has every reason to be upset with her biological parents. But I had thought that Cat had come to terms with her mother in the episode Anniversary. Obviously she hadn't. Instead her feelings against her mother were bottled up inside, left festering and had gotten even worse. Until her emotions exploded at the bridal shower. Changing topics. Isn't it funny how JT now seems to have his own private lab at the hospital? Does Vincent just sneak him in? JT wears a white coat and looks very comfortable doing his research at the hospital, just as if he actually works there now. Or did I miss something and did JT have a change of jobs?
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Post by VinCat❤Destined on Jul 17, 2015 20:12:39 GMT -5
BeastieBoy: I, too, would love for it to be answered about who actually killed Thomas Chandler. In Season 1, it seemed obvious that it WAS Bob Reynolds, since Thomas was on his way to tell Catherine about him. Granted, Muirfield could have done it on their own, without knowing the Reynolds/Chandler/Vanessa connection, but that would be at odds with what Evan obviously found in the records regarding Catherine's "parentage." Muirfield may have seen that Thomas was researching Bob on his computer and decided to "do Bob a favor" by taking out Thomas without running it by him first. At any rate, the timing is just too coincidental for Thomas to only be murdered by Muirfield right THEN, knowing he was going to make disclosures to his law enforcement daughter. At least at the time, Bob Reynolds didn't mind emotionally hurting his daughter with the loss of someone she loved since he was willing to kidnap Vincent, KNOWING he was important to his daughter AND that he planned to kill him following the completion of his "missions." So taking out Thomas would not have bothered him at that time. However, Bob had already started working against Muirfield at the time of the planned kidnapping of Vincent, so Thomas COULD arguably have been about to tell Catherine about Bob and how he would attempt to protect her. Thomas obviously thought it was importatn for Cat to know about Bob right then due to Bob coming back into the country. Would LOVE to know what Thomas planned to actually disclose at the time, particularly if it might have had something to do with the tape. My final theory is that after Thomas was killed, Bob Reynolds THEN broke into the Chandler home to get whatever was left of Vanessa's research in order to keep it from falling into other hands OR from incriminating him. And in the process, he found the tape AND took the photos then. There was obviously A LOT of stuff in that box, so we may end up re-visiting all that later, assuming no one decides to take out Bob. I agree. The way I look at it, Reynolds was behind Muirfield. In Who Am I he told Zao that Zao worked for him and that it was time to shut down Muirfield. So whether Reynolds had Thomas killed or Muirfield did it, Reynolds is either directly or indirectly responsible for killing off both of Cat's parents. Ironically, both of Cat's biological parents (Vanessa & Bob) were responsible for creating the Beast. Cat has every reason to be upset with her biological parents. But I had thought that Cat had come to terms with her mother in the episode Anniversary. Obviously she hadn't. Instead her feelings against her mother were bottled up inside, left festering and had gotten even worse. Until her emotions exploded at the bridal shower. Changing topics. Isn't it funny how JT now seems to have his own private lab at the hospital? Does Vincent just sneak him in? JT wears a white coat and looks very comfortable doing his research at the hospital, just as if he actually works there now. Or did I miss something and did JT have a change of jobs? Someone asked Gillian that yesterday on twitter her answer Vincent has perks and knows how to talk his way LOL
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Post by ArwenFan on Jul 17, 2015 20:29:26 GMT -5
A random comment: The bachelor party was just odd. Can you imagine being at a coffee shop and suddenly a stripper starts doing a lap dance on a patron? It's not like they had rented the place to themselves, there were other customers there too. Don't get me started on Il Cantuccio! They use it for everything! Let's kill Gabe here, oh, lets continue to hang out here even after we killed someone here, ok lets have your bachelor party here... Can you imagine a parent with their kids having lunch? "Cover your eyes, kids, that gentleman is getting a lap dance."Lol! Well, to be fair, the stripper was in the bar section of the establishment. There were no children present or likely to be since alcohol was clearly being served. The place seems to be a favorite hang out of so why not go there to celebrate? And clearly JT wasn't in on the stripper surprise, so he wouldn't have suggested any place more appropriate.
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Post by Bill the beast on Jul 18, 2015 0:24:54 GMT -5
(1) BeastieBoy - not a coffee shop. ArwenFan is correct. Looks like a quiet little bar. And disagreeing with all the female Beasties here, I thought the whole "Officer Darla" scene and Vincent's discomfort was hilarious. (2) Reynolds says to Catherine, "I gave you a box from your Mom after I sold the house". So we know he kept it himself all those years until he was planning to flee or after he had been caught. We don't know how he acquired those things but we know from the end of the tape that Vanessa didn't have time to make any plans about it. She is rushing out to help Cat. It is not entirely clear where Vanessa is when she records that tape. It doesn't have to be the home she shared with Thomas. But I agree that Reynolds would have had agents pick up anything from anywhere that might mention Muirfield. Later he saved that particular item for Catherine. (3) I thought it has long been clear that Cat was never actually mad at her Mother. This is just what she does: turn one feeling into another by layering on all sorts of "thinking". She has always felt guilty about Vanessa. Cat left the vanity mirror open in her VW Beetle, drained the battery and then called her Mom to her death. At least that's how she sees it. The video tape shows her Mom explaining she tried to make amends and fearing that something might happen to her. If it does, then Cat should try to find happiness and love. Don't just try to save the world. This is just what Catherine needed to hear on several levels and she is put in touch with her love for her Mother. (And she can put aside guilt) (4) I agree that KK was awards-worthy for this episode (and many others). I recently went through all 10 seasons of Smallville and I was struck by how it is really 2 different shows: the first 5 (or so) seasons (the Lana years) and then the rest. I was also struck by how right from the beginning Kristin was able to project feelings and make you feel them too. But what was really remarkable is that she got better and better for the first few years. I can well imagine that all the comic-book-nerds would view feelings as the very last thing they want to happen. And they hated her for it. I don't think the producers were crazy about Lana becoming one of their most powerful characters either. But they couldn't get away from using her. She could rip your heart out.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 18, 2015 0:25:53 GMT -5
Another solid episode. Catherine delivered in that emotional scene. I wonder how she explains what she meant by her Mom hurt Vincent to her aunties.The bridal shower scene left me feeling very unsettled. Cat probably went from being the aunties favorite niece to their most hated relative. They're clueless as to why Cat is so angry at their sister. They must have left New York in total shock & dismay, with a very poor opinion of Cat. I know this episode is about Cat and her mom, but I also wish the writers would have treated the character of Thomas Chandler with better care. Heather mentions their mom in her toast, but what about their dad? Isn't it sad that he isn't around to see his daughter get married as well? After all, Thomas is the only real dad Cat has ever known. Thomas having raised both Cat and Heather from their birth to the day he died. The fact that he was later revealed not to be Cat's biological dad doesn't erase that.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 18, 2015 0:39:22 GMT -5
(1) BeastieBoy - not a coffee shop. ArwenFan is correct. Looks like a quiet little bar. And disagreeing with all the female Beasties here, I thought the whole "Officer Darla" scene and Vincent's discomfort was hilarious. Nope it's not just a quiet little bar. They're at the Il Cantuccio. Same place they shot the opening and closing coffee drinking scenes from the last episode 305. Most of the scenes shot at Il Cantuccio involve Cat drinking coffee, that's why I called it a coffee shop. Technically I guess it's really just a restaurant. But it's seems to have a coffee shop like section in the front, the middle restaurant/bar section, and the pool table section in the back (where Vincent and Gabe had their final battle in 222). But the point is they're in a public place and suddenly a stripper walks in and starts to do her thing? Just weird. They should have used the location where they shot the karaoke scene from S1 or some place similar.
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Post by anapi -season3baby :) on Jul 18, 2015 1:21:18 GMT -5
(1) BeastieBoy - not a coffee shop. ArwenFan is correct. Looks like a quiet little bar. And disagreeing with all the female Beasties here, I thought the whole "Officer Darla" scene and Vincent's discomfort was hilarious. Nope it's not just a quiet little bar. They're at the Il Cantuccio. Same place they shot the opening and closing coffee drinking scenes from the last episode 305. Most of the scenes shot at Il Cantuccio involve Cat drinking coffee, that's why I called it a coffee shop. Technically I guess it's really just a restaurant. But it's seems to have a coffee shop like section in the front, the middle restaurant/bar section, and the pool table section in the back (where Vincent and Gabe had their final battle in 222). But the point is they're in a public place and suddenly a stripper walks in and starts to do her thing? Just weird. They should have used the location where they shot the karaoke scene from S1 or some place similar. i agree. i personally (female beastie here) did not mind the strip thingie scene at all but the setting was just odd and did not make sense. there was no privacy whatsoever where they were - they were in full view. which coffee shop/bar/restaurant would allow that to happen? anyway.. that is the only thing that i was meh...ing about in this episode, so no biggie i guess
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Post by Bill the beast on Jul 18, 2015 2:01:19 GMT -5
OK, fair enough, it must be Il Cantuccio (The Nook) but the odd thing is the idea of a coffee shop/bar. Never seen one personally.
For what it's worth, I promise you if this actually happened in a NY bar, no one would even turn around to look.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Jul 18, 2015 2:24:02 GMT -5
A number of members have commented on KK's epic crying scenes during Smallville (e.g. alwayscrazedbatbfan "Requiem", Suzieq ❤️ Beastie "Tempest", and Bill the beast). I thought I'd add my own favorite to the KK greatest hits list: SV Season 6 "Promise". The scene towards the end when Clark comes to Lana in the Church to find out why she went through with the wedding. The range of emotions KK displayed during that entire ending segment left me devastated the first time I saw it. It still slays me whenever I rewatch that episode, even more so than "Requiem". Her performance in Chasing Ghosts certainly is up there with the best of them.
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