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Post by hackerjustice on Aug 29, 2015 16:11:36 GMT -5
Maybe Kristin is just not into doing the show that much anymore. After all, she signed on with the expectation that she would be working with Levin and Cooper, and the rug was kind of taken out from underneath her. Of course, she's going to give what she can, but these type of disappointments can have subtle and more impacts.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Aug 29, 2015 16:42:51 GMT -5
Maybe Kristin is just not into doing the show that much anymore. After all, she signed on with the expectation that she would be working with Levin and Cooper, and the rug was kind of taken out from underneath her. Of course, she's going to give what she can, but these type of disappointments can have subtle and more impacts. I do recall that KK said the main reason she agreed to do the show was because of Jennifer and Sherri. No doubt their departure has had impact, but to what degree with KK I have no idea.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Aug 29, 2015 16:48:39 GMT -5
Again, EXACTLY! Not only Cat, but Kristin has looked tired, stressed and ......yes, "aged dramatically". She has been given too much exposition and not enough time to express her emotions. Even in some light moments Cat, is holding back, I feel. Vincent has really let his emotions fly this season. Nina has really shown her acting talents, she let down her "tough girl" persona and showed some real hurt and emotion. Heather has added some nice ditsy comic relief. But Catherine......she looks like she is about to break in two.....I think she needs to take a nice long beach vacation. I am worried about the finale. The emotions for me are just not there. I think the hair, make up and wardrobe has a lot to do with how Cat/KK looks at times in S3. For example, here's a still from 312. I've never seen her look so tired and stressed. http://instagram.com/p/6xjyO4yeoL Here's a pic of KK the day before the CW Upfronts, just before S4 shooting was to start, so months after 312 was filmed. See how much younger she looks in real life? http://instagram.com/p/2y6cIbHSvo
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2015 18:58:19 GMT -5
Maybe Kristin is just not into doing the show that much anymore. After all, she signed on with the expectation that she would be working with Levin and Cooper, and the rug was kind of taken out from underneath her. Of course, she's going to give what she can, but these type of disappointments can have subtle and more impacts. I do recall that KK said the main reason she agreed to do the show was because of Jennifer and Sherri. No doubt their departure has had impact, but to what degree with KK I have no idea. I think those are good observations. I suspect none of the cast are really invested in these characters at this point. S3 has been disappointing on so many levels that I don't see how the cast could have much enthusiasm. The initial read-throughs on the scripts must have had them rolling their eyes with all the exposition and repetitive dialog. KK I'm sure is just finishing out her contract as a good professional would and doing a good job and collecting the paychecks. That's all we could expect of her. Cooper and Levin feelings about this would be of interest. But I imagine even they are not too broken up about it after being shown the door.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 4:56:14 GMT -5
Maybe Kristin is just not into doing the show that much anymore. After all, she signed on with the expectation that she would be working with Levin and Cooper, and the rug was kind of taken out from underneath her. Of course, she's going to give what she can, but these type of disappointments can have subtle and more impacts. I do recall that KK said the main reason she agreed to do the show was because of Jennifer and Sherri. No doubt their departure has had impact, but to what degree with KK I have no idea. I have lost this statement by KK bit I agree that except forma crying scene and fighting scene where she is usually great this season she appears more weak than others character. If you remind BTS of this season both KK and JR look tired and a little bit annoyed and they did not smile... Maybe JR is investing a little bit more because he needs to prove his skills more than KK to impress the market (and he does it very well)
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Post by NotOnTv on Aug 30, 2015 11:06:12 GMT -5
You've hit the bull's eye with each one of your 6 points. I couldn't agree more, especially your view on Cat's character this season and how the wardrobe has contributed to a low point for that character in my view. The hair and make-up department has been below par for Cat in S3 as well - IMHO. Cat/KK always looks so tired and stressed out, her character has aged dramatically this season. KK in real life doesn't look as mature as they make her character seem at times on the show. I'll add another big disappointed for me: 7. No real drama, angst or danger. This season has become so comic book like, that the drama and danger don't seem real. The missing VinCat passion is bad enough, but I would have happily taken real longing and angst in it's place. Anything to really make you "feel" their love. I would have liked more mini cliff hangers to leave you at the edge of your seat. I'll site 2x17 Beast is the New Black as a prime example, having Cat kidnapped in her bedroom at the end of the ep was a total shock to me. We got nothing on that level this season, I rarely felt really worried for either Vincent or Cat this season. Again, EXACTLY! Not only Cat, but Kristin has looked tired, stressed and ......yes, "aged dramatically". She has been given too much exposition and not enough time to express her emotions. Even in some light moments Cat, is holding back, I feel. Vincent has really let his emotions fly this season. Nina has really shown her acting talents, she let down her "tough girl" persona and showed some real hurt and emotion. Heather has added some nice ditsy comic relief. But Catherine......she looks like she is about to break in two.....I think she needs to take a nice long beach vacation. I am worried about the finale. The emotions for me are just not there. Kristin and Jay used to have some creative input into their lines and scripts in the past, as far as I can recall. Maybe this is not the case anymore and perhaps KK herself was unhappy on how her characters was being written and this translated into her performance. There are TV actors out there who could not care less about how their characters are being written or gave up on trying to have their creative input long time ago. Kristin strikes me as the type who would like contribute if given the opportunity. I do not think she was given the chance in season 3. I agree that Cat's worn out look is getting old. KK has such a huge acting range. Maybe that's why I can see she's showing maybe 40 percent of it this season. Then again, there is only so much a great actor can do with the material he's been given. Cat's lines, the majority of them this season, have been awfully repetetive and eye-roll inducing. What I miss with this current set of writers is something we in Germany call "Fingerspitzengefuehl". It's a feeling you have for certain things - how appropriate, fitting they are or where less is more. In this case, it's the feeling a writer develops for the characters he writes for. I do NOT think, with all due respect and regardless of the talent in the writing room, that these writers have it. I am sure they are a gifted bunch. But they have not been with these characters from the day one. They are not Shonda Rhimes who spreads herself too thin yet is THE person who has the final say on the characters SHE has created. And I think this is where Jen and Sherri are sorely missed now.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2015 12:32:15 GMT -5
Fingerspitzengefuehl. I had to look that one up. Your opinion is very well stated. I don't think any of us really know for sure, but I can't imagine KK is happy about the way her character is written...at this point. The current writers clearly don't have the ability to give any of these characters real flair or create story lines that are interesting. That, in and of itself, is not necessarily a problem, but treating the viewers like 12 year olds with all the silly repetitive dialog is insulting. I see a lot of complaints regarding this show and much of the blame seems to be aimed at the romance aspect. It's a factor, but the problem with the show is not the lack of VinCat romance. Kristin herself is still luminous, but Cat Chandler (for the most part) no longer is. Very disappointing.
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Post by NotOnTv on Aug 30, 2015 13:01:57 GMT -5
The last scene of the episode is a perfect illustration of what the problem has been this entire season. There is just too much dialogue. Too many lines that are not only repetetive but pointless - they do not move the plot forward or carry any sort of important message for the viewers. Meaning, they are no lines the audience can relate to or "feel". Off the top of my head I could recite a couple of memorable lines from previous seasons. Right now. From season 3 I'd have to look for them for a while.
I think you making a great point there with Kristin being luminious but Cat Chandler not. And it's not because of KK. It's because of how the character is written and how, in my opinion, KK finds it hard to relate and rattle off those hundred lines per sec AND portray deep emotions at the same time.
I really wish they would have kept Sherri and Jennifer as consultants to the show or just let them be the script supervisors. Or just like Rhimes does. Show up in the editing room.
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Post by BeastieBoy on Aug 30, 2015 13:03:26 GMT -5
Fingerspitzengefuehl. I had to look that one up. Your opinion is very well stated. I don't think any of us really know for sure, but I can't imagine KK is happy about the way her character is written...at this point. The current writers clearly don't have the ability to give any of these characters real flair or create story lines that are interesting. That, in and of itself, is not necessarily a problem, but treating the viewers like 12 year olds with all the silly repetitive dialog is insulting. I see a lot of complaints regarding this show and much of the blame seems to be aimed at the romance aspect. It's a factor, but the problem with the show is not the lack of VinCat romance. Kristin herself is still luminous, but Cat Chandler (for the most part) no longer is. Very disappointing.Agreed. For me, being the "Beauty" in the show not only means external beauty but inner beauty as well. This season Cat's inner beauty isn't what it should be. Her character has often come off as too driven, stubborn and abrasive. The writers have spent more time finding ways to have VinCat bicker rather than focus on a loving relationship on the verge being consummated by marriage. pippin found something that indicates Kristin will become one of the co-producers for S4, which hopefully means KK has more input into the show and her character. But despite the flaws and disappointments of S3, like Nick Roman, I'm still enjoying this season nevertheless. It's interesting that Nick was enjoying this season so much that he didn't even notice the lack of VinCat passion until continued comments by fans brought it to his attention. To the point where he actually made comments about it in his latest review. www.rickey.org/beauty-and-the-beast-review-sins-of-the-fathers-is-compelling-tale-of-revenge-loss/284763/
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Post by BeastieBoy on Aug 30, 2015 14:03:31 GMT -5
The last scene of the episode is a perfect illustration of what the problem has been this entire season. There is just too much dialogue. Too many lines that are not only repetetive but pointless - they do not move the plot forward or carry any sort of important message for the viewers. Meaning, they are no lines the audience can relate to or "feel". Off the top of my head I could recite a couple of memorable lines from previous seasons. Right now. From season 3 I'd have to look for them for a while. I think you making a great point there with Kristin being luminious but Cat Chandler not. And it's not because of KK. It's because of how the character is written and how, in my opinion, KK finds it hard to relate and rattle off those hundred lines per sec AND portray deep emotions at the same time. I really wish they would have kept Sherri and Jennifer as consultants to the show or just let them be the script supervisors. Or just like Rhimes does. Show up in the editing room. Right. Contrast the ending scene of 312 vs 118 "Heart of Darkness". During the subway scene conversation after Evan died, the line that stuck with me was - Cat: "How do you always find me?" V: "I never stop looking." But that entire scene was so emotionally rich. Not just the lines, but the looks, the touching, the interactions and everything about the subway scene was spot on. Much of it had to do with the way KK portrayed Cat in that scene, her acting was superb. There are so many ways the writers could have made the ending of this episode 312 much more powerful. But they missed the mark. This was due to the script, not the actors. The inner conflict that Cat should be feeling over the loss of her bio dad, given that he was a baddie and the people he hurt, yet he redeemed himself in the end. Moreover, Cat was even more responsible for his death compared to the death of Evan. And if she took the gem with her back to the church, while Reynolds was left alone with Liam, that act in itself directly contributed to his death. (Which is what I assumed happened, since Liam could beast out.) However, none of that emotion was displayed during the ending scene. Vincent should have also been emotionally torn for his hatred of the man who brainwashed him into becoming an assassin vs his need to love and comfort Cat for her loss. None of that emotion was shown either.
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Post by pippin on Aug 30, 2015 17:58:06 GMT -5
Some comments and questions KK looked very cute in the opening scene and loved her expressions, but I don't think saying you are "so sorry" after hitting someone with your car will placate them or help them much, and I wish that scene had been real. Not Liam killing Cat, but I really like the way he delivered those lines and the intensity. Hopefully Nicole will get over her cold soon I normally am not bothered nor do I much notice people's clothes, but what was that thing Cat was wearing --were they trying to make her look like a moth? I thought JT's hockey scene was going to be a dream when I originally read about it, but it made for a nice JTnT moment and got Tess out of the precinct where she couldn't rescue Cat from the IA. I'm also still wondering if TPTB were rewarding Austin by letting him play out a scene like that. Was surprised the whole scene where Vincent is eavesdropping on Liam and the Ellingsworth's gathered for the christening was deleted but V relayed the necessary information that Liam had taken over the family. Why did it take Liam 161 years to try and off the Ellingsworths? He killed Rebecca a year after Al died so why wait so long to knock off the Ellingsworth clan? If I were V and the evil person who set me up a few days ago referred his extremely important "sister" to me, I think I would have passed the case on to another doctor or someone who specialized in cases involving poisoning. Finally Bob actually has a conversation with a prison visitor outside of his cell but how did he remember all of the ingredients and the amounts and is he a chemist or scientist too? Jay looked cute holding the tranq gun but I swear he looked like he was going to start laughing at one point. If I were Cat and an evil person didn't know I was related to the lover that jilted him, I wouldn't foolishly volunteer that information. And besides, Cat didn't even actually get the gem from her ancestor, she got it from Vincent, who stole if from some thieves, who stole it from some Russians -who had it why?? And why didn't the gem stop Liam from beasting out and killing Bob? Was Liam's hatred for R & A so strong that it overcame the effects of the gem? And shouldn't Liam have been able to kill Heather and JT too even if they got a head start? How could JT still stay in that place with another broken window, trashed and bloodstained interior and another dead body. KK looked lovely in the last scene, but how could Cat and Vincent have drinks in a public place when there's a superhuman vengeful murderous beast after them? In answer to a couple of the points you made I think........ 1) Vincent's curiosity got the better of him and also, Cat had told him it was paramount to protect Helen Ellingsworth so I think he thought it was his responsibility to keep her safe. Vincent clearly knew how to treat the poisoning and gave her the most effective drug but obviously, Liam obscured the fact that she was allergic to the medicine. Then when he went back in to finish her off, he made sure her notes showed CLEARLY what she was allergic to, to get Vincent into trouble. 2) Maybe Reynolds had a notebook with him with all his personal stuff and maybe the recipe for the memory serum was stuffed into that. 3) Agree it made no sense for Cat to tell Liam she was related to Rebecca, especially after Reynolds had told her not to volunteer that information. 4) Maybe Liam had forgotton all about JT and Heather being there as his memories seemed a little scrambled to say the least. 5) I think Cat may have taken the gem with her when she and Vincent rushed off to save the Ellingsworth family so Bob couldn't use it to suppress Liam's beast side. 6) I think it made perfect sense for Cat to wait for Vincent at the bar, in a public place, rather than at their appartment. I bet they don't spend the night there again until the threat of Liam is gone. Vincent had to move Reynolds body from JTs place after all. If the NYPD ever swept that place it would be an Aladdin's cave of DNA evidence. 1- Except by the time Vincent and Cat had their conversation about Helen, Liam was finishing her off, so V really needed to be more on the ball. I suppose could have been curiosity on V's part and / or also V's continued belief that he could best Liam. Would tie in with the previous episode where Liam kept mocking V for thinking he could take him in a fight. 2) OK, in my head I'll go with notebook too.LOL 5) I suppose that could be the explanation but why would they do that other than plot convenience? I prefer the idea that Liam's beastly rage at Rebecca's betrayal was sooo intense that it overcame the effects of the gem rather than the characters are so stupid. But we will have to see if the writers needed to leave themselves an out 6) Seeing how Liam previously threatened to kill all the people at Il Cantuccio, I think it was irresponsible of them to meet there. Don't think they should go back to their apartment either. A Both Sides Now type meeting would have been a more logical place in my mind.
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Post by pippin on Aug 30, 2015 19:07:27 GMT -5
I normally am not bothered nor do I much notice people's clothes, but what was that thing Cat was wearing --were they trying to make her look like a moth?LOL! OK, I know someone made some rude remarks to Catherine Ashton that made her leave twitter, but while the person should have used more tact, she had a point IMHO. The wardrobe choices for Cat have been hit or miss this season, more often bad misses for my taste. What happened to all those beautiful dress seen in S1? I just don't understand how CA can pick and design such wonderful outfits in S1 and now choose such drab looking and sometimes plain goofy outfits in S3. Go figure? Unfortunately it wasn't just one person and I think it went back to S2 when people kept complaining to her about V's bathrobe. I don't think any of the cast or crew who regularly participate on social media would quit because of just one rude person or remark, but there were people who were basically spamming her account with their complaints, criticisms or "opinions." In some cases it was the same few people using multiple twitter accounts but maybe she couldn't tell. Gillian got fed up and closed her account briefly and even Austin tweeted a few things that indicated he was getting fed up. Except for the first few episodes when they were trying to make Cat or KK look "tougher," I don't see a big difference in the wardrobe but like I said before, I usually don't notice clothes unless it's something like that moth sweater. That said, I could swear Cat wears some of the same blouses and sweaters in the various seasons. And I think KK has a strong say in what her character wears. If Nina can refuse to wear a dress in certain scenes, I'm sure KK has the status to nix things as well.
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Post by pippin on Aug 30, 2015 20:10:29 GMT -5
Oooops my bad, I moved my post with the pic and BeastieBoy 's reply to the Destined spoiler thread. Sorry.
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Post by batb4evr1 on Aug 30, 2015 22:47:07 GMT -5
Hello My Fellow Beasties and Beasts! Wow, when you snooze you lose! All the postings I have missed when I was away busy with commitments! I was a bit disappointed at times during these last few episodes but not at the level I have been reading. As I had stated before and some had also expressed, something seems quite out of sync in our BATB atmosphere. You all made valid points for contemplation but I am an optimist when it comes to this show. I was deeply let down by the original Beauty and the Beast and kicked in the gut by LOST but this show and its actors captured my heart so completely and I am keeping an open mind and heart. In some ways I see what they are trying to portray in regards to where I characters are in this stream of time and its events but taking into consideration of where the foundation and development of VinCat's love should be now they did set us up like Lucy does Charlie Brown! They yanked the ball when the viewer prepared for a winning kick! The absence of Sherri and Jennifer is definitely an elephant in the room for me also, is it effecting the scripts and the actors portrayals? Scarily Possibly! We have one more episode and I hope there is a noteworthy payoff leading to Season 4! If there isn't I won't blame the actors or costumers, the fault lays with the script developers, as someone stated an actor can only portray what is written to the best of their ability and if they are sorely disappointed, that is gonna show. And lets admit it, our actors are able to give stellar performances, they have proved it before. Is someone so unable to meet the challenge of the bar the Jennifer and Sherri left? Hmmm, one could speculate a hearty perhaps! One ray of hope is was it pippin I believe shared that our Kristin is going to be more in control in Season 4! For the sake of a more than well deserved finale I hope this is true! She, Jay, Austin, Nina and Nicole has been vested in this show and they deserve been scripts and their fans deserve a best season! No more false or misleading breadcrumbs on Twitter, interviews, fan forums and Facebook!!!
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Post by pippin on Aug 30, 2015 23:48:42 GMT -5
Actually that was Anapi that found the article saveeachotherbatb.com/post/119376 mentioning KK being given a producing credit: It’s a good thing for Kreuk personally, too, as it gives her more time to pursue her other interests. Kreuk, who will be given a producer credit in the fourth season, hopes to shift gears and go into producing eventually. So far, she says she has been working on churning out ideas for TV shows and pitching them.Another article referenced her producing "an episode" but I have no idea how reliable these sites are. IMDB is listing KK as a producer for 402, although that sites info isn't always reliable. Even if it turns out to be true that she was given a producer or ex. prod.credit, it could just be more of a salary or contractual perk but not one with any actual clout. She was given an Ex. prod. credit for Space Milkshake but all four cast members were and I think that credit was given in lieu of them getting much in terms of actual money.
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