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Post by pippin on Jul 29, 2015 1:08:00 GMT -5
Can't say that the episode really did it for me, but I also know that I was hoping for a little more from this episode in particular and I did enjoy it more after watching a second time. But after the wow of Chasing Ghosts and the overall enjoyment of Both Sides Now, this one felt like eh for me. What I enjoyed: Vincent's speech outside the church - I thought it was the only scene that was somewhat emotional. I thought it was cute that Cat and Heather slept together and Cat hit her with the pillow, but what happened to Heather's old bedroom. Thought Heather was funny in her phone conversation with Vincent. "Yes" "That would be bad" "Understood" "OK Bye-bye." JT telling Juliana she was a pain in the ass and shooting her with the tranq, although she seemed to wake up quicker then Vincent has in the past JT and Heather showing some promising scene chemistry -- "And by we, I mean you." "Wait, why me?" JT and Tess's discreet conversation as they walked down the aisle-- "What do we do?" "Pray" Cat's hair, except for the wedding do and KK's ability to look great even with a "bloody" nose and busted lip Fight in the limo - but how did Juliana stay hidden right outside the precinct when everyone was supposed to be looking for her and she seemed to recover very quickly and fight rather well for someone who had just woken from a coma Way Liam killed Juliana -- appropriately brutal and gruesome The odd parts: Heather seemed to have acquired a bit of JT, even had a line about an ulcer and since when is she the worry wart of the sisters? Tess was Cat in their precinct scene Vincent was Cat in their end scene Cat is apparently made of tougher skin than Vincent and heals quicker Why didn't Vincent beast out? Is he too much in love and at peace now? Doctor Vincent isn't the one to check out the injured evidence guy Cat is concerned about Vincent at the church but then just leaves and doesn't seem concerned about his physical well-being even though he still looks beat up? Heather says Cats father is in prison. No Cat's father is dead. Heather even referred to their father in Chasing Ghosts as their dad With only 5 people at the rehearsal, why were there all those people at the rehearsal dinner? Who were all those people at the church and where were Cat's aunts? Did they refuse to come to the wedding after her outburst at the shower? I think most pf the people at the rehearsal dinner were cops from the precinct. They wouldn't invite them all to the rehearsal. That's just the main people: bride and groom, best man, bridesmaids and parents. Also, Cat's father IS in prison. Thomas Chandler was her step-father who adopted her but Bob Reynolds is her ACTUAL father. Heather referred to Thomas as being their Dad in Chasing Ghosts because he is HER Dad. I thought that the rehearsal dinner was for people who were actually in the wedding party -- those that had to rehearse for the ceremony -- and maybe grandma and grandpa. Personally, I think the show was cheating because they knew there wasn't going to be a reception after the wedding, but they wanted to have that type of scene and have JT make his speech, etc. but then I don't think I've ever been to more then one rehearsal dinner so I really don't know who actually gets invited to those things. Maybe adoptees feel different, but Dad/Father, unless the guy is the kids grandpa or uncle, I think the person that raises the kid is the dad or father, especially if he adopted the child when he/she was a baby.I think of step-dad / step-father as a man who has married a kid's mother after a divorce or after she is widowed. At first it seemed like the writers were trying to have Cat refer to Thomas as her dad and Bob as her father like in Father Knows Best: Okay, Agent Reynolds is not my dad. He is my biological father. There is a difference. But then in that same episode, she called him "Dad" I'd prefer if Cat referred to Bob as Bob, as she did in Guess Who's Coming to Dinner and only used Dad when she was trying to manipulate him like in Man or Beast. With Thomas gone and things that won't be mentioned here, I really wish they had kept some of the Cat / Heather scenes in the pilot where you find out about Thomas and Cat's relationship. I think it could have added some poignancy to the Cat / Bob relationship. 1st Scene HEATHER It’s just, Dad’s engagement party’s going to be hard enough with a date, and -- CATHERINE Dad’s engaged? Heather realizes she put her foot in her mouth -- HEATHER He just told me. CATHERINE Right, I’m sure I’m next on his call list. END 2nd Scene CATHERINE You know what, you suck. I was so excited to tell you, and now you’re making fun of me -- HEATHER -- I’m not, but you have to know how it sounds. CATHERINE I know, crazy, but I also know what I saw. I mean, nothing about Mom’s murder made sense. A car-jacking? Those guys came at us like hired killers. HEATHER Maybe it’s easier to think that, because then you’re not... CATHERINE What, to blame? I’m not trying to let myself off the hook. HEATHER That’s just it, you should. That’s what I was saying about you not feeling deserving -- CATHERINE -- Heather, this isn’t about boys. HEATHER But you blame yourself. Accidents happen, no one blames you. CATHERINE Except Dad. HEATHER He’s gonna call. He’s just... CATHERINE Forget I even said that, this isn’t about Dad.
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Post by pippin on Jul 29, 2015 1:42:41 GMT -5
It's not going to happen but I wish we could discuss these episodes with the writers/directors. It would certainly help to clear up some of the issues brought up.Got a chance to watch the episode again. Agree with Karen re: the wedding rehearsal and Vincent and Cat in a world of their own. Nicely acted by JR and KK. I'm trying to understand why Cat would give up now and I don't think it's a sudden about face from her previous attitude. She got angry and would have called the wedding off when she heard the precinct wide alert about Julianna's escape, but Tess managed to convince her to carry on with the wedding for the sake of her friends and family. Then again after her fight with Julianna, it was Vincent with his impassioned plea that again made her carry on with the wedding. So I think being attacked by Liam just as she and Vincent were about to get married was the last straw. I understand why some people are upset or questioning how Cat could leave Vincent injured at the church. She did rush up to see if he was ok initially. Why didn't she stay? It was odd and not in character right? Maybe that was the intention of the writing (this is pure speculation folks) but I would think that she would need time and space to process everything that has happened in the last two days. I would be totally depressed - it seems like the whole universe is conspiring to prevent her wedding day and now they have another Big Bad, who seems to be more powerful then anything they've ever encountered.... Maybe part of the problem is with the shorter number of episodes in the season. Although I admit 22 episodes is a bit much, but it would have meant more time for going into the backstory of Juliana, for example, and who she actually was and how did she get involved in all these experiments. Maybe by the end of the season we'll know, so I'll reserve judgment till September. I don't know that the writers always help. I had stopped watching Smallville but on the Sweet message board some of the things people posted that the writers tweeted in response to questions concerning how some things in the show were possible were not very comforting like She's awesome.She can do anything or He's Lionel Luthor. During the Alex arc, Brian Peterson's explanation was that everyone had a different idea about epic love and even Roger Grant tweeted that it hadn't been said on air, but the writers believe that Vincent's mother had passed away. Well the pilot had already established that all of Vincent's next of kin were deceased, which would of course include his mother. As for Juliana, we could be learning more.
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Post by tonysol on Jul 29, 2015 2:42:10 GMT -5
Learning more about Julianna? Oooo... is that speculation or do you know something I don't? I tend to try to ignore the plot holes and logic gaps when watching, cos frankly this problem isn't unique to BatB. I also try to come up with my own (sometimes really crazy) explanations. We've shifted away from the procedural series that was how BatB started with in season 1, but I would have thought that the cops would at least have launched a full investigation into Julianna's office and lab after she was caught. Someone should have mentioned something about this, even if it was a throwaway line that they didn't find anything useful, at least, right? Yep, that's me, the armchair detective, who's probably watched too many episodes with my other favourite female NYPD detective who works homicide at the 12th precinct (who BTW has some similarities in her backstory to our gal Cat). Oh well. I've signed on for the ride and so far on balance I've enjoyed the season very much.
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Post by pippin on Jul 29, 2015 9:25:32 GMT -5
It's not going to happen but I wish we could discuss these episodes with the writers/directors. It would certainly help to clear up some of the issues brought up. Should have added that even if the writers sometimes say head scratching things, I too would love to discuss the episodes with them or the directors. Maybe we can get them to do a few commentaries for the season 3 DVD. Would love KK and Jay to do one. Maybe TV shows should have a FAQ page for those questions that people ask about the most but are never answered on the air. Maybe we should start one here and people could add the answers if the cast or crew respond 1) How old is Vincent? 2) What exactly did Evan read in that file about Cat's parents in Heart of Darkness 3) Who killed Cat's dad -- I actually saw a tweet from one of the writers saying that Zhao killed Cat's dad, but I haven't been able to find that tweet again.
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Post by pippin on Jul 29, 2015 9:38:43 GMT -5
Learning more about Julianna? Oooo... is that speculation or do you know something I don't? I tend to try to ignore the plot holes and logic gaps when watching, cos frankly this problem isn't unique to BatB. I also try to come up with my own (sometimes really crazy) explanations. We've shifted away from the procedural series that was how BatB started with in season 1, but I would have thought that the cops would at least have launched a full investigation into Julianna's office and lab after she was caught. Someone should have mentioned something about this, even if it was a throwaway line that they didn't find anything useful, at least, right? Yep, that's me, the armchair detective, who's probably watched too many episodes with my other favourite female NYPD detective who works homicide at the 12th precinct (who BTW has some similarities in her backstory to our gal Cat). Oh well. I've signed on for the ride and so far on balance I've enjoyed the season very much. I can answer that question in another thread. For a show like BATB that I'm really interested in, I do the same thing. Yep, me too, I enjoy the cast and the character interactions so even if I could or should be rolling my eyes, I like watching them on the screen and then thinking about other ways to tell the story.
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Post by tonysol on Jul 29, 2015 20:54:56 GMT -5
It's not going to happen but I wish we could discuss these episodes with the writers/directors. It would certainly help to clear up some of the issues brought up. Should have added that even if the writers sometimes say head scratching things, I too would love to discuss the episodes with them or the directors. Maybe we can get them to do a few commentaries for the season 3 DVD. Would love KK and Jay to do one. Maybe TV shows should have a FAQ page for those questions that people ask about the most but are never answered on the air. Maybe we should start one here and people could add the answers if the cast or crew respond 1) How old is Vincent? Let's see whether my math is correct - we know he was already working in a hospital at the time of 9 -11. And in Season 3 he is reinstated as a doctor and my impression seems to be that he is an attending physician, i.e. Board certified. So this certification must have happened before he left for Afghanistan, i.e. 2001 or maybe slightly later, depending on how long he actually took to make up his mind and join the Army.
So finished high school at 18, 3 years premed, minimum 3 years residency, plus usually minimum 1-2 years as a fellow means he was probably 25-26 years in 2002.
2) What exactly did Evan read in that file about Cat's parents in Heart of Darkness I remember reading somewhere that this was also brought up and it was something Vincent already knew about. I think it had to do with Cat's biological father but I need to try and find the reference again.3) Who killed Cat's dad -- I actually saw a tweet from one of the writers saying that Zhao killed Cat's dad, but I haven't been able to find that tweet again.
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Post by Vincent Keller on Jul 29, 2015 22:54:55 GMT -5
Must be residual PTSD from watching the first half of Season 2 ^ I'm sorry but I read that and just
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Post by pippin on Jul 29, 2015 23:46:14 GMT -5
Okay, this is type-as-I-go drabble. Down the rabbit hole we go, looking for who's behind behind behind behind behind the beasts... V and Tess hug! Sister hug! Julianna badassing her way out of the hospital with a head butt and syringe lock pick. Wow. Cat's red dress. YOW. And make-up on point. Wedding look, mmm, no. Did JT really make the speech about him and his relationship? Vincent rocking another comic booky suit with the purple and black. I dig the VTess team up. You have to understand that my life revolves around BroTPs. I like how they've used the beast plots to allow the precinct to be involved and them to do detective-y things like draw their guns! (Tess) Please get a new NYC establishing shot. I was there 14 months ago and Freedom Tower is like...done. The limo creeped me out before Julianna showed up, tbh. What kind of douche wad professionally drives with ear buds in? If you drive with ear buds in, stop it right now. At least he had good taste in music. Limo fight! Weddings are stressful enough. This was a nightmare, sheesh. Nice bridesmaids dresses. Vincent making me cry tho. "You saved me, you loved me... Please, no more sacrifices." That whole wedding debacle was just awkward for me. Like I wanted to feel the feels but I was like oh gosh this is bad. This is going to end so badly. Heather and Tess like: JT you're legit more in love with V than Tess. It was.......idk the word. It was odd...interesting to see them flip viewpoints at the end. Cat has bee SO outspoken about this issue, and she seemed so rattled that it like...quieted her all the way down. I don't think she took Vincent going through that wall very well, not to mention the threats on her own life and their loved ones, as she mentioned. Vincent was a complete mess - first not telling Cat, then her finding out, him trying to protect the wedding, and then, by the end, realizing why she's been so determined to stop who was behind all this. He's been the calming force while she's been keyed up all season, but tonight, she was kind of stopped dead in her tracks and he is distraught. Hmmm.... Keep forgetting to ask you what you mean by comic booky when talking about V's clothes
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Post by francesca on Jul 30, 2015 0:02:57 GMT -5
Should have added that even if the writers sometimes say head scratching things, I too would love to discuss the episodes with them or the directors. Maybe we can get them to do a few commentaries for the season 3 DVD. Would love KK and Jay to do one. Maybe TV shows should have a FAQ page for those questions that people ask about the most but are never answered on the air. Maybe we should start one here and people could add the answers if the cast or crew respond 1) How old is Vincent? Let's see whether my math is correct - we know he was already working in a hospital at the time of 9 -11. And in Season 3 he is reinstated as a doctor and my impression seems to be that he is an attending physician, i.e. Board certified. So this certification must have happened before he left for Afghanistan, i.e. 2001 or maybe slightly later, depending on how long he actually took to make up his mind and join the Army.
So finished high school at 18, 3 years premed, minimum 3 years residency, plus usually minimum 1-2 years as a fellow means he was probably 25-26 years in 2002.
So he should be almost 40 right? Much older than his real age. 2) What exactly did Evan read in that file about Cat's parents in Heart of Darkness I remember reading somewhere that this was also brought up and it was something Vincent already knew about. I think it had to do with Cat's biological father but I need to try and find the reference again.3) Who killed Cat's dad -- I actually saw a tweet from one of the writers saying that Zhao killed Cat's dad, but I haven't been able to find that tweet again.
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Post by tonysol on Jul 30, 2015 0:31:59 GMT -5
"Keep forgetting to ask you what you mean by comic booky when talking about V's clothes" Ok I have to agree and this is not bashing the costuming dept on BatB, just my personal opinion, respectfully given: I did not like V's day suit. That colour for the lapels as well as the blue on his boutonniere...nope! Cat's dress was okish, not the same as the one she got caught looking at in the wedding dress boutique waiting for Heather in 3x01 (I checked!) but her hair I thought made her look very prim and overly mature/serious. I get that you can't do very much with hair the length of Cat's this season (I may be wrong as a guy, so ladies feel free to correct me) but at least where I come from brides tend to let their hair grow long to give more styling options - then cut them off after that! As an example (ahem) of some other character in another show...
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Post by missingalias on Jul 30, 2015 1:26:14 GMT -5
I actually loved her dress! The hait not so much as I previously stated. nyt why I'm repeating myself is that I think they're going to leave cats hair fully open in the real wedding scene and therefore maybe felt the need to put her hair up to make more contrast. I love Jay in that blue suit, but he could wear a tent and I wouldn't mind. In the end I hope cat wears only some classic white summer dress in the final wedding but we shall see. That might be just me though as I'm not into big church weddings at all.
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Post by jefferen on Jul 30, 2015 5:40:37 GMT -5
Should have added that even if the writers sometimes say head scratching things, I too would love to discuss the episodes with them or the directors. Maybe we can get them to do a few commentaries for the season 3 DVD. Would love KK and Jay to do one. Maybe TV shows should have a FAQ page for those questions that people ask about the most but are never answered on the air. Maybe we should start one here and people could add the answers if the cast or crew respond 1) How old is Vincent? Let's see whether my math is correct - we know he was already working in a hospital at the time of 9 -11. And in Season 3 he is reinstated as a doctor and my impression seems to be that he is an attending physician, i.e. Board certified. So this certification must have happened before he left for Afghanistan, i.e. 2001 or maybe slightly later, depending on how long he actually took to make up his mind and join the Army.
So finished high school at 18, 3 years premed, minimum 3 years residency, plus usually minimum 1-2 years as a fellow means he was probably 25-26 years in 2002.
2) What exactly did Evan read in that file about Cat's parents in Heart of Darkness I remember reading somewhere that this was also brought up and it was something Vincent already knew about. I think it had to do with Cat's biological father but I need to try and find the reference again.3) Who killed Cat's dad -- I actually saw a tweet from one of the writers saying that Zhao killed Cat's dad, but I haven't been able to find that tweet again. Yea that's the theory I usually go on as well...plus maybe he graduated high school a year or two early. Cuz also remember he was a firefighter for a bit too
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Post by Andromeda03 on Jul 30, 2015 16:59:42 GMT -5
Happy Episode Day US Beasties!In preparation for tonight's airing, I've gone ahead and moved the thread to the episode area. I hope our US Beasties enjoy the episode tonight!
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Post by batb4evr1 on Jul 30, 2015 20:43:15 GMT -5
Due to the shortened Season the writers are moving faster than usual. I wish it were longer because what seems like inconsistencies in my mind will be addressed. In truth, was tonight one of my favorite episodes, in a word NO! But I have patience and confidence that the writers would not bring us this far to totally pull a LOST on us! If they do it would be disappointing but I am a wait and see person. I don't lose faith until I have strong evidence so in my estimation there are 5 more episodes to wrap this Season.
If they dropped the ball concluding this Season which I strongly doubt they will let happen, they still have Season 4 to clean things up and wrap BATB with the golden bow it deserves! These actors have poured their hearts into this series and endured harsh criticism and taunts, any future projects could be affected. I want them all to get some sweet offers for future works especially Jay as he has come quite a way to participate in this series. I think he ever is starting to like Toronto.
It's alright if this episode did not overwhelm us, there is still time to WOW us isn't there?
I have a conference and a bit of material review this weekend so my voice will be silent until Monday. I will be peeking in when I can so I look forward to hearing your thoughts. Love you my fellow Beasties!!!
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Post by pippin on Jul 30, 2015 21:04:06 GMT -5
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